65 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Sevaradan, on 29 November 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

I don't trust them and I want the game to be better...

You don't trust them yet you install their software? That is kinda funny.

[Catamount]

Broceratops, on 29 November 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

LoL is an arena type game where 5 people pick 'heros' which all start at level 1 and then they fight against the other team. After 30 minutes one team destroys the other team's base and wins. So there is no disadvantage or advantage for any person other than skill. It is the same with WoW. In their instanced formats its just the same level people against each other.

I don't agree with this assessment of either of these games, as I feel you're leaving out crucial mechanics of both.

In LoL's case, it's not terribly far off to say people have equal footing at the beginning, except that one's account does have an overall level, and being higher there unlocks slots to equip persistent bonuses. There is a notable difference between someone playing on a level 1 account, and someone who's account is level 30 (which I believe is the maximum).


In WoW, the difference is even starker. Yes, it's true that in many situations WoW matches level, but equal levels do not mean equal character capability. Gear means every bit as much as level in WoW, and there is no mechanic to match gear. To use "vanilla" WoW as an example (I played through WOTLK, but I remember level 60 better than level 70/80), someone who's been at level 60 for a little while and/or doesn't spend their whole life in the game, and has barely managed full Tier 0 (maybe with a smattering of black dragonscale gear) isn't going to remotely be a match for a hardcore longtime raider dressed up in full Tier 2. Now, "World of Gearcraft" wasn't quite as bad as some people made it out to be, and when I was packing nothing but T0, I could best characters in Tier 1 gear sometimes, though it was hardly a fair fight, but full T2? Forget it. PoM Pyro mages could quite nearly 2-shot undergeared level 60s (3 shot? sure, but they only got 2 pyros so it took them maybe 5 seconds to kill you instead of 1 second ). And those weren't even the nastiest mage builds for PvP, not even close. It doesn't matter how many shenanigans one pulls in 98% of matches like that; you're fighting someone who probably hits twice as hard as you, and has at least half again as much health and armor. Later in the game, the same went for facing someone who was packing full high-end arena gear.

To WoW's credit, as I said there was more skill involved than people often claimed, well, when you didn't play a warrior or a BM hunter (or a Warlock in BC; FEAR-dot-dot-dot, FEAR-dot-dot-dot, FEAR-dot-dot-dot), and definitely to WoW's credit, by level 70 multiple avenues opened up to get good gear other than hardcore raid grinding, but it was hardly a case where two people of equal level, but different time comitments, were on equal footing for everything but skill, imo.

Edited by Catamount, 29 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Accursed Richards]

Catamount, on 29 November 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

You know, it's hard to take these posts seriously when I see exactly why PuGs get stomped in the first place. 90% of you people don't communicate, and you don't listen to those of us who do. I played a game just yesterday where I tried to hold the team together as some kind of coherent fighting force, and the entire team never responded to several straight minutes of me trying to talk to them; I was literally the only one on our team who entered a single, solitary thing into the chat window and what a surprise, we lost 0 to 8 in about 3 minutes.

Even rudimentary tasks like sticking together and focus firing a target are apparently beyond that vast majority of PuGs, and again, even when someone who shows half a clue about how to play this game does so much as call out a target for focus, everyone ignores it and runs around in circles aimlessly, or whatever it is that PuGs do. I think the TKing trolls are probably the most competent people I see; at least they seem to have a goal!

One thing to remember is, that at least a few of these terrible players are terrible because they're still learning how to play the game during live matches, in the glaring absence of a training level.

[Catamount]

Accursed Richards, on 29 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

One thing to remember is, that at least a few of these terrible players are terrible because they're still learning how to play the game during live matches, in the glaring absence of a training level.

I do definitely try to take account of that fact (and I'll make a lot of allowance for someone who preempts a fight with "sorry guys I'm new at this"), although that's all the more reason to communicate. A new person who asks questions not only deserves some slack, but also some respect. That shows a lot of willingness to sound like a noob for a few seconds in order to learn the game, and I will give big props for that. A new person who runs around in circles and doesn't make an effort to figure out what you're talking about when you tell him to hold in E4/E5 and don't crest over the ridge, or to focus fire F, well let's just say that that there is a PuG veteran in the making.

It's also not an excuse that can possibly apply to 90% of people, yet 90% of PuGs are terrible. It doesn't apply at all when an instruction as simple as "stay together" is given. I don't care how new you are, if you're told to stay together, and your instant reaction is "nawwwwwww, I'm gonna run over to the other side of the map by myself chasing that Jenner in my heavy mech!", well, there's no sympathy there from me when you get blown to pieces That this happens a lot with people who probably aren't new, well it's just scary

Edited by Catamount, 29 November 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Kill Dozer]

need:
~server/lobby/game browser type setup asap, with basic configurable options, max tonnage, map rotation etc.

Just like every other mechwarrior game in history.

[QuantumButler]

Kill Dozer, on 29 November 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

need:
~server/lobby/game browser type setup asap, with basic configurable options, max tonnage, map rotation etc.

Just like every other mechwarrior game in history.

Nope, too hard for PGI to program, will never happen.