27 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

There is a lot of talk of nerfing this,that. Streaks, Acs, Buffing this,that..etc,etc.
None of this makes any sense until the primary fault is fixed, NET Code.
Without fixing the code we cant really comment on the true state of the game and balance.
Please stop all work on anything and fix the primary problem.
Thank you.

[Redshift2k5]

Netcode is handled by a whole different department.

Making a game is done by a wide rang of highly specialized roles- the mech guy and the map guys and the UI guys are not even trained in the required field to work on the netcode.

Weapon balancing is a design team job (Paul mainly I think) and is not taking away manpower from networking

[Dudeman3k]

N0MAD, on 25 November 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

There is a lot of talk of nerfing this,that. Streaks, Acs, Buffing this,that..etc,etc.
None of this makes any sense until the primary fault is fixed, NET Code.
Without fixing the code we cant really comment on the true state of the game and balance.
Please stop all work on anything and fix the primary problem.
Thank you.

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YESYES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

good post.

[N0MAD]

OK Redshift you are totally correct, different departments etc.
Still any work on lets call it Batle balance is useless until the code is fixed, no?

[Noth]

N0MAD, on 25 November 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

OK Redshift you are totally correct, different departments etc.
Still any work on lets call it Batle balance is useless until the code is fixed, no?

Nope, because it works to keep the balance of the current game close. This type of game will be balanced repeatedly throughout its life. Better to keep what we have balanced now and rebalance as needed like what would happen anyways.

[Lord Ikka]

Like Noth said, the game will constantly be a balancing act as different Mechs and, eventually, different weapons will impact the state of the game. Netcode is important, but trying to switch over the guys designing Mechs/weapons/maps/CW to netcode would result in a loss of efficiency. The other designers would have to learn exactly what needs to be done, slowing down the netcode team, and the other areas would fall behind as their designers were switched to netcode. While it sucks, we just have to wait and hope that they can work on it the best they can.

[Lokust Davion]

Who is exactly responsible for netcode?

[Noth]

Lokust Davion, on 25 November 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Who is exactly responsible for netcode?

The programmers specialized in dealing with it.

[Rifter]

I agree and have said as much before, Untill you actually make the game playable with consistant hit detection and get rid of the lagshield balance is a waste of time.

[p00k]

agree. half the reason we see so many streakcats is because streaks are one of few things that can reliably hit jenners

[Sirous]

The netcode for Mechwarrior is not as bad as everyone thinks. Or at the very least all games suffer from the same issues that Mechwarrior has. There are a few things that stand out in Mechwarrior that make it seem worse than it is.

People with pings over 100 will screw up everyone else. Have more of them the more the lag will get to you. This is the main issue, I routinely see pings over 200 and sometimes 300. Sorry but in any FPS you are going to have a bad time with them.

Hit detection is a little wonky, this also is in just about every game, the reason that MWO is a little worse is, there is no respawn and it takes a lot of firepower just to bring the armor down in one section of mech, so every missed shot is compounded. Other FPS games everything is a lot squishier so a few missed shots are made up for.

Warping mechs, this is also in other games. BF3 has it fairly bad but noone complains, bad hit detection client side hit detection. watching enemies still reloading kill you, dying while you know you are around the corner. Missiles that disappear after you die. Missiles that just fly through tanks without hitting. It's all good because you can just respawn in and ***** about PGI's crappy netcode. Shooting at an enemy getting hits detected only to find out that you didn't hit them at all.

Haven't played an online FPS that was perfect, they all have their issues. MWO its a little more prevalent due to the armor values and the fact that it takes so long to actually kill a mech.

This is not to say that it doesn't need to be better, just that its not as bad as you think it is relative to all the other games out there.

[Lin Shai]

Sirous, on 25 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

This is not to say that it doesn't need to be better, just that its not as bad as you think it is relative to all the other games out there.

I really want some of what it is you're smoking.

Because it's the good stuff.

[Lokust Davion]

Noth, on 25 November 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

The programmers specialized in dealing with it.

And who is that? I thought theyre still trying to hire someone to do the netcode.

[Vlad Ward]

Lokust Davion, on 25 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

And who is that? I thought theyre still trying to hire someone to do the netcode.

They're looking to hire additional network programmers; that doesn't mean they don't have any at all, just not as many as they would like.

[JimSuperBleeder]

Vlad Ward, on 25 November 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

They're looking to hire additional network programmers; that doesn't mean they don't have any at all, just not as many as they would like.

With them actively trying to hire more programmers it at least shows they trying to solve the issue. I have no doubt that the issue will get resolved. I imagine that it's taking a lot of work to fix it.

[flackee]

I originally thought the same. However, the official netcode post changed my mind, for the timeframe.

Throughout closed beta they have only tweaked netcode, tightening it up, making changes trying to help then rolling them back, etc. I thought a rewrite was out of the question, but now that the official post said as much and made it sound like it will be months before we see any change at all.

We can't really have these balance issues for that long when this isn't closed beta. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, balance is and always will be an ongoing issue, so the loss of time working on it should be a constant factor, as opposed to being a complete waste. Sure, the process may be 'original design' -> 'compensated for netcode and other issues' -> 'original design', but when you consider the length of the second part may be 30% of the total development time so far, it makes more sense to do a balance pass for it now.

Edited by flackee, 29 November 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[QuantumButler]

netcode will never be fixed, enjoy having to lead with hitscan lasers.

[Penance]

Soon...i don't know how to add the TM.

[Kaldor]

I consider the matchmaker and 8man to be higher priority....

[LordBraxton]

Sirous, on 25 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

The netcode for Mechwarrior is not as bad as everyone thinks. Or at the very least all games suffer from the same issues that Mechwarrior has. There are a few things that stand out in Mechwarrior that make it seem worse than it is.

People with pings over 100 will screw up everyone else. Have more of them the more the lag will get to you. This is the main issue, I routinely see pings over 200 and sometimes 300. Sorry but in any FPS you are going to have a bad time with them.

Hit detection is a little wonky, this also is in just about every game, the reason that MWO is a little worse is, there is no respawn and it takes a lot of firepower just to bring the armor down in one section of mech, so every missed shot is compounded. Other FPS games everything is a lot squishier so a few missed shots are made up for.

Warping mechs, this is also in other games. BF3 has it fairly bad but noone complains, bad hit detection client side hit detection. watching enemies still reloading kill you, dying while you know you are around the corner. Missiles that disappear after you die. Missiles that just fly through tanks without hitting. It's all good because you can just respawn in and ***** about PGI's crappy netcode. Shooting at an enemy getting hits detected only to find out that you didn't hit them at all.

Haven't played an online FPS that was perfect, they all have their issues. MWO its a little more prevalent due to the armor values and the fact that it takes so long to actually kill a mech.

This is not to say that it doesn't need to be better, just that its not as bad as you think it is relative to all the other games out there.

You must not play many online games.

The netcode in this game is reminiscent of the 90s.

QuantumButler, on 29 November 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

netcode will never be fixed, enjoy having to lead with hitscan lasers.

This is a very scary but very real possibility.