42 replies to this topic

[QuantumButler]

Mu, on 29 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Well, I suppose the '90%' on their forecast thing still allows them a way out if they screw up again. But oh man that'd be sad.

I just got Super Robot Wars Oirignal Generation 2, if this does happen I will just go play a good space gundam fighting game for a couple weeks.

[the jokes on me I will inevitably return to MWO like a battered housewife suffering from Stockholm Syndrome =C ]

Edited by QuantumButler, 29 November 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Wardn, on 29 November 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

It wasn't meant to be taken literally. And they already banned an account of his, so his punishment has already happened, his "time has been served" if you will. What reason do they now have of locking/deleting the thread? It was a legitimate discussion.

agreed, PGI has been ignoring this problem from the get go. Fixing this isn't rocket science and it's crucial to many players enjoyment of the game. Plenty of suggestions have already been made on this subject. PGI needs to pick one and implement it already.

[Murrdox]

"I do care about the future of this game" ... and then he writes a Bot to exploit it?

That's sort of like saying you love your child, and then molesting it.

Hey Kevin Anchor 2... "Don't be a ****". It's a philosophy you should live by more often.

The funny thing is no matter what this ***** says, you know he's still playing.

Game's in Beta. I'm enjoying it most of the time. It totally sucks when I crash to desktop in the middle of a match that's going really well, or I run into a teammate who is standing there doing nothing who obviously crashed to desktop as well. I'm seeing those scenarios a little more often nowadays than the suicide farmers.

I'm looking forward to the bugs being fixed. In the meantime, I'm having fun, earning XP and CB. Looking forward to the next Hero Mech and the Stalker.

[Wardn]

Krivvan, on 29 November 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

"Hey, I wrote a simple script to do suicide abusing, interview me!" is not a legitimate discussion.

Just as legitimate as "Hey! I played the game and found x difficulties, listen to me!"
I'll give you a minute to go back and read it again, specifically the entire middle body of text where he has legitimate concerns. Then come back and try to tell me how his opinion is less valid because you say so.

[AvatarofWhat]

Murrdox, on 29 November 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

"I do care about the future of this game" ... and then he writes a Bot to exploit it?

That's sort of like saying you love your child, and then molesting it.

Gray hat hackers do this stuff all the time to try to get companies to shape up. While a white hatter might just tell a company of vulnerabilities in their systems, often those companies do nothing about the problem, just like PGI has been very slow to respond to this farming issue. It isn't until suddenly all of their customers information is put up on the web by gray-hatters that these companies start to take action and shape up their systems. If you just leave them alone they convince themselves that everything is fine and more malicious black-hat hackers will get that same information and use it maliciously to impersonate customers and steal funds. Except then, no one knows whats happening except for the customer affected, and the exploit keeps being abused for much longer.

The same scenario is being reproduced here on a more minor scale. Farming happens, PGI ignores it. People suffer. Dude makes bot to make farming an obvious problem. PGI finally takes action against farmers by banning them and implementing new systems that don't reward farmers. Sometimes you have to get a little dirty to get the results you want. Hate him all you want I applaud him for stepping forward and pushing this issue forward.

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 29 November 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[DraigUK]

I screenshotted and reported Kevin, so glad to see action was taken. He was actively trying to get caught was my impression. I guess when enough people reported him action was taken. Or for all I know it was just me. I reported him yesterday, today he is banned. To me that is very swift action and excellent on behalf of PGI.

He's been going for about 7 days with his script. Was I actually the first to screenshot and report him? Quite possibly.

He raises good points however that I hope PGI take note of.

Where he loses credibility totally is in distributing his script freely making the problem worse for normal players instead of trying to help make it better, which he claims to be trying to do.

[flackee]

Hellspwan, on 29 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

While I was trying to fix the low FPS, another player on our team typed this into the chat -
"I ask not for your forgivness"
"Only your understanding"

Then commits suicide...

The single game that I played on Tuesday was this, exactly. Same guy (thats not initials, thats exact name, bad), same phrase. Amusingly, there was a Jenner spawned in right behind him while he was overheating himself. Since he overheated with a ballistic weapon, someone thought the jenner behind him was teamkilling the suicider.. so he unloaded into the jenner. Someone shot back. Not only were we down a person, but now two more mechs were damaged, and we hadn't even left the base.

[Mu]

QuantumButler, on 29 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

I just got Super Robot Wars Oirignal Generation 2, if this does happen I will just go play a good space gundam fighting game for a couple weeks.

[the jokes on me I will inevitably return to MWO like a battered housewife suffering from Stockholm Syndrome =C ]

Half of my mechs are named after that game. You know my big red AWS-9M? I called him Alteisen

[Kraven Kor]

Wardn, on 29 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

Just as legitimate as "Hey! I played the game and found x difficulties, listen to me!"
I'll give you a minute to go back and read it again, specifically the entire middle body of text where he has legitimate concerns. Then come back and try to tell me how his opinion is less valid because you say so.

"So, I just wrote a program that skims from bank transactions and got busted, but here are a bunch of really legitimate problems with our economy..."

The guy makes valid points.

But he wrote a script to exploit the game and therefore, in my mind, has no ground to stand on to point at the actual, legitimate concerns many have.

And, yeah, 6 hours of gameplay to get an Atlas? Is that so bad? I play about 6 hours a week "not even trying to play" - that isn't a grind. That is me playing a game and (generally speaking) having a good time.

[KingCobra]

What's as bad as the suicide farmers is the team killers I have to say since the last patch im starting to enjoy MWO a bit more overall. That said this last month I cant count how many times I've been shot on spawn after the match starts and I've gotten -xp/Cb for killing the ttuurrdd that was shooting everyone. Then having to go into battle with a 20-50-% damaged mech.I don't think they can fix this unless there was a auto boot for friendly fire or just no friendly fire at all were allowed.

[Swiss Beats]

Wardn, on 29 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Like I said, there is no link because the mods trashed it as soon as they came across it. Discussion about problems = baaaad.

Sounds like Wargaming.. if you say anything about WoT that they disagree with, the Russian mob deletes the post and bans the player tossing them into the tank Gulag.

[Felbombling]

Like or hate what KA did, it is hard to imagine that he didn't want to get slapped for his actions. Near the end of his run he was openly taunting PGI to the tune of how long the script had been running and how much he had farmed to that point.

[Swiss Beats]

KingCobra, on 29 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

.I don't think they can fix this unless there was a auto boot for friendly fire or just no friendly fire at all were allowed.

You have to have FF enabled else there is nothing preventing people from dogpiling and circle ****** opfor mechs with zero penalty for raining fire without cause or effect.

StaggerCheck, on 29 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Like or hate what KA did, it is hard to imagine that he didn't want to get slapped for his actions. Near the end of his run he was openly taunting PGI to the tune of how long the script had been running and how much he had farmed to that point.

KA should have contacted PGI directly and brought it up to them showing examples of how he could use an exploit rather than be a douche nozzle about it.

[Kraven Kor]

demonr6, on 29 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Sounds like Wargaming.. if you say anything about WoT that they disagree with, the Russian mob deletes the post and bans the player tossing them into the tank Gulag.

PGI is not censoring any form of discontent.

They are shutting down threads that are just emotional, angry rants and unproductive flame wars.

Discussing flaws or problems in the game, real or perceived, will not result in a thread being closed. Using combative and inflammatory language in said complaints - "PGI what are you doing?" "PGI you suck" "PGI you are terrible" "PGI doesn't care and is using our founder's cash to buy their own private island..." etc. - will result in a thread being closed.

I have said many things critical of this game and PGI, but I have done so politely, professionally, rationally... and my threads and posts don't get deleted or locked.

[QuantumButler]

demonr6, on 29 November 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

You have to have FF enabled else there is nothing preventing people from dogpiling and circle ****** opfor mechs with zero penalty for raining fire without cause or effect.


KA should have contacted PGI directly and brought it up to them showing examples of how he could use an exploit rather than be a douche nozzle about it.

He did, they ignored him, so he made and distrubted a script.

Kraven Kor, on 29 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

PGI is not censoring any form of discontent.

They are shutting down threads that are just emotional, angry rants and unproductive flame wars.

Discussing flaws or problems in the game, real or perceived, will not result in a thread being closed. Using combative and inflammatory language in said complaints - "PGI what are you doing?" "PGI you suck" "PGI you are terrible" "PGI doesn't care and is using our founder's cash to buy their own private island..." etc. - will result in a thread being closed.

I have said many things critical of this game and PGI, but I have done so politely, professionally, rationally... and my threads and posts don't get deleted or locked.

sounds like censorship to me.

If it walks like a duck...

[Sybreed]

I once recommended that C-Bill rewards are based on XP gained after a match... not such a crazy idea after all...

Edited by Sybreed, 29 November 2012 - 10:30 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

QuantumButler, on 29 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

sounds like censorship to me.

If it walks like a duck...

The internet is an ugly place.

Censorship is when you are not allowed to, and/or are severely punished for what you say.

These forums need gorram censorship as many people cannot seem to communicate in a polite, professional, constructive manner.

And yeah, this country has free speech. I can still tell you to get off my property if I don't like what you are saying. These forums are PGI / IGP's property - they make the rules. Abide by them, and your posts / threads won't be deleted or locked.

"Current repair costs are too high and this is my data / suggestions" is fine as a critical post.

"PGI, WTF are you doing with repair costs? Do you want people to NOT play your game?" is not fine as a critical post.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 29 November 2012 - 10:34 AM.

[stjobe]

QuantumButler, on 29 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

sounds like censorship to me.

There's no free speech on a forum like this. You either abide by whatever rules the forum owner put up, or you risk getting your posting privileges revoked.

If you choose to interpret that as censorship, you have no idea what the word means.

[Kraven Kor]

Yeah, when PGI sends goons to your house to arrest you and/or smash your teeth in for saying "PGI sucks!" on Facebook, then you can talk to us about Censorship.

Having a forum moderator say "play nice or we ban you" is not censorship. That is maintaining the peace

Edited by Kraven Kor, 29 November 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

QuantumButler, on 29 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

sounds like censorship to me.

If it walks like a duck...

Here’s what free speech actually means in the U.S. and how it protects us:

• Free speech is shorthand for the First Amendment. It says:
  [indent]
  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. [/indent]
  Notice that it forbids Congress from making a law abridging the freedom of speech. It doesn’t say anything about anyone else.
  
• Free speech is about stopping government censorship. What is dangerous and leads us into a repressive system is the government using its massive power to silence people who threaten its power. The press is the watchdog of the U.S. government; without it the powerful will move to consolidate their power and we’ll be helpless. Look at Putin and the journalists he’s murdered – that’s what we’re worried about.
  
• The First Amendment says nothing about non-governmental entities. Things like newspapers, radio, and book publishers don’t have a huge army, the police, the courts, or other major sources of power to abuse. (Media monopolies excepted, hence on-going attempts to prevent it.) The government can’t stop someone from saying racist things on the street corner, but you can sure as heck kick them out of your living room. Definitely no one has to pay to publish someone’s speech – try telling Random House that free speech means they have to publish your novel. Good luck!
  
• Freedom to say what you want is not freedom from people reacting to what you say. It’s your right to say something hateful and rude. It’s my right to stop paying you to do it, to tell you that you are a jerk, to fire you, or to stop being your friend. Think about it, if free speech really worked the way people often think, then deleting death threats from your blog comments would turn us into fascist Italy. I think we can agree that that doesn’t seem too likely.

http://blog.valeriea...h-really-means/