74 replies to this topic

[Xanquil]

Other than it never saying anywhere in any way, shape, or form that thay do. Multi-barrel dosn't mean rotary.
And you are half right "A item is defined by the way it works not how it looks", the way an item works defines how it will look. Haveing 2+ barrels that the recoil of 1 loads the other is a modified loading system, a revolver mag is also a modified loading system(for example). Both of which look vary different from a vulcan. The rediscovery of the vulcan style of load and fire didn't come about untill 3060ish.

Here is a simple question; What is going to be the visual difference between a UAC/5 and a RAC/5?
The RAC has more barrels, or we'll see in 12 years are not viable answers.

[pursang]

Xanquil, on 10 May 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Other than it never saying anywhere in any way, shape, or form that thay do.

Exactly, it's pretty open to interpretation, wouldn't you say?

Xanquil, on 10 May 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Multi-barrel dosn't mean rotary.
And you are half right "A item is defined by the way it works not how it looks", the way an item works defines how it will look. Haveing 2+ barrels that the recoil of 1 loads the other is a modified loading system, a revolver mag is also a modified loading system(for example). Both of which look vary different from a vulcan. The rediscovery of the vulcan style of load and fire didn't come about untill 3060ish.

A Vulcan is the name of a specific weapon system. I think the term you're looking for is "rotary cannon" or "Gatling-type cannon"

Xanquil, on 10 May 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Here is a simple question; What is going to be the visual difference between a UAC/5 and a RAC/5?
The RAC has more barrels, or we'll see in 12 years are not viable answers.

And why not? Oh and, "just because you said so" isn't a viable answer.

Edited by pursang, 10 May 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[Gigaton]

If you compare the UAC/5 on Cicada and AC/5 on Dragon you'll also see that the bore is much smaller on Cicada. I don't think that's a coincidence since Alex is good at keeping his weapon sizes rather consistent.

Now if that means UAC/5 will have less damage per shot in MWO than AC/5 is up to speculation.

[Xanquil]

pursang, on 10 May 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

Exactly, it's pretty open to interpretation, wouldn't you say?

Lack of information dosn't give one grounds to add to the information at hand. You wouldn't expect a hamburger to have a cheese on it, but a cheeseburger you would? As soon as the cheese(rotation) is added it becomes something else. Just because it didn't say it had it, dosn't mean it should.

pursang, on 10 May 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

A Vulcan is the name of a specific weapon system. I think the term you're looking for is "rotary cannon" or "Gatling-type cannon"

This is correct, vulcan is just 1 type of rotary cannon.

pursang, on 10 May 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

And why not? Oh and, "just because you said so" isn't a viable answer.

Because that would be an avoidance of an answer instead of an answer.

[pursang]

Xanquil, on 10 May 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Lack of information dosn't give one grounds to add to the information at hand. You wouldn't expect a hamburger to have a cheese on it, but a cheeseburger you would? As soon as the cheese(rotation) is added it becomes something else. Just because it didn't say it had it, dosn't mean it should.

More like it's a hamburger that uses slightly different spices then other hamburgers.

Xanquil, on 10 May 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

This is correct, vulcan is just 1 type of rotary cannon.

Thanks for agreeing.

Xanquil, on 10 May 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Because that would be an avoidance of an answer instead of an answer.

How so? Do you honestly think you'll still be playing this game in a decade from now? So this design makes it look more like a RAC, why is this a bad thing? What else would it look like, you're standard autocannon? Talk about boring. We already have several weapons that use single-barrels in the game.

[canned wolf]

Xanquil, on 10 May 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Other than it never saying anywhere in any way, shape, or form that thay do. Multi-barrel dosn't mean rotary.
And you are half right "A item is defined by the way it works not how it looks", the way an item works defines how it will look. Haveing 2+ barrels that the recoil of 1 loads the other is a modified loading system, a revolver mag is also a modified loading system(for example). Both of which look vary different from a vulcan. The rediscovery of the vulcan style of load and fire didn't come about untill 3060ish.

Here is a simple question; What is going to be the visual difference between a UAC/5 and a RAC/5?
The RAC has more barrels, or we'll see in 12 years are not viable answers.

The Devs say you're wrong, the artists say you're wrong, the community says you're wrong and the rules make no distinction. Why would rotating barrel autocannons be restricted to two size classes? We've had gatling guns since the Civil War. Why would they be more prone to jamming than standard AC's, since in real life jamming issues and overheating are exactly why you want a gatling canon?

[AC]

mekredd, on 09 May 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Are you people for real? This is the basic Cincada, that's 2 med. lasers and a small. There are no autocannons on that mech.

Jesus.

Please do your research!

The Cicada 2A - has a medium laser in the RT, a ML in the LT, and a small laser in the CT They are not all in the LT.
CDA-2B - ML RT, ML LT, Flamer CT
CDA-3C - PPC LT, MG RL, MG LL (machine guns are on the legs)
CDA-3F - ERPPC and ML LT, ML RT (Two weapons in LT)
CDA-3G - ERLL and ML LT, ML RT (Two weapons LT)
CDA-3M - ML and UAC5 LT, ML RT, SPL CT (Two weapons in LT)
CDA-3MA - ML and snub nose PPC LT, ML RT, SPL CT (Two weapons in LT)
CDA-3P - Heavy PPC and ERML in LT, ERML RT, two ERML CT (Two weapons in LT)

There should not be three barrels sticking out of the LT for any reason. The most weapons that location ever gets is two. I am not sure why people think the UAC's have multiple barrels, but all the info I have found says that it has a different loading mechanism. Check out Sarna....

Quote

Introduced in 2640 by the Terran Hegemony^[4]. The Ultra Autocannon/5 is an upgraded version of the standard Autocannon/5. Utilizing a different loading mechanism, the Ultra Autocannons are capable of maintaining a substantially increased rate of fire over traditional or LB-X autocannons at the cost of higher heat and the risk of jamming. Of course, the rapid-fire autocannons require a much larger supply of ammunition to maintain their rate of fire. This high dependence on ammunition limits the effectiveness of the weapon. Being of a lower caliber, the Ultra Autocannon/5 has an increased range at the cost of reduced damage over higher-caliber versions.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

AC, on 10 May 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

There should not be three barrels sticking out of the LT for any reason. The most weapons that location ever gets is two. I am not sure why people think the UAC's have multiple barrels, but all the info I have found says that it has a different loading mechanism. Check out Sarna....

Simple artistic flair, the UAC 5 loads faster which allows it to have the high rate of fire, weather its single barrel of multi barrel is not a massive leap a multi barrel still lends itself to the theory of high rate of fire..

Edited by DV^McKenna, 10 May 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Orzorn]

Don't forget, AC, that the TROs and techmanual describe ACs in a broad way. Even the Techmanual mentions that the AC varieties are classifications. ACs can look different, its just that many artists in the past did not do that and people got the idea that they all had the look the same.

And it isn't just autocannons. Lasers, heatsinks, etc all come from different manufacturers. Even the Cicada describes that its base variant suffered from poorly manufactured heatsinks that allowed it to overheat faster than normal. Its just that none of the games had the time to model such things. I'm glad that we at least get to see different autocannon shapes.

[Major Tom]

AC, on 10 May 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

CDA-3M - ML and UAC5 LT, ML RT, SPL CT (Two weapons in LT)
There should not be three barrels sticking out of the LT for any reason. The most weapons that location ever gets is two. I am not sure why people think the UAC's have multiple barrels, but all the info I have found says that it has a different loading mechanism. Check out Sarna....

And lasers require gun barrels too because that how they are mounted on mechs. You are being intentionally obstinent, PGI and FlyingDebris are breathing new life into an old property, and I for one think they are doing a great job. I don't necessarily agree with every change, but a multi-barrel AC is actually an artistic improvement. Imagine how much better the rifleman would have been if someone would have realized that a 2 barrel AC was possible. The fact that every rotary AC it is not a "RAC" is meaningless to me since "RAC"s arent' even in the game.

[Sleepy Head]

RAC = Rotary auto cannons.

Suppose those were not the lasers barrels they are and that they are instead auto cannon barrels those would not have to spin.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Sleepy Head, on 10 May 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

RAC = Rotary auto cannons.

Suppose those were not the lasers barrels they are and that they are instead auto cannon barrels those would not have to spin.

As strange as it sounds and the name implies, Sarna states that the RAC shares the same bore as the AC.

[Orzorn]

You know, I always liked the idea better that an RAC was more like a revolver in design. That is, it had a revolving cylinder but only used a single barrel. There's plenty of autocannons in real life that work that way, and it does increase firing rate because the reload rate is increased.

[Garth Erlam]

It's a 3M.

[Alex Iglesias]

to shed some light on my thinking

standard autocannons, ultras, and rotaries are not so much specific designs as they are families of various weapons classified by relative tonnage/size, accuracy, and damage output.

-standards are all over the place in terms of fire rate in the fiction. some fast, some slow. (in some cases it can be argued that certain ac-20s in the fiction might have fire rates comparable to racs or ultras, but that their weight, damage, and firing characteristics put them in the standard 20 category)
-ultras are generally considered pretty damn fast, using higher than average rofs to achieve higher damage output for their class.
-rotaries are simply considered obscenely fast.

the way they lump all their damage into concise clear and easy locations in the TT instead of tracking every round fired off in those 10 seconds based on fluff models, recoil, windage, range, drop, lateral movement, etc. is simply for gameplay purposes, not actual indication of how a given weapon would behave in *real life* because really, it doesn't suit tt gameplay to have to track 300+ bullet impacts or whatever. Same reason machineguns magically can put 2 damage in a single location somehow and not damage anything else when common sense would indicate that they would pepper a target all over.

in real time we can play with those specifics to get something more interesting and dynamic.

[Sleepy Head]

DV^McKenna, on 10 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

As strange as it sounds and the name implies, Sarna states that the RAC shares the same bore as the AC.

Whoa, I stand corrected

[Evgeny Bear]

mekredd, on 09 May 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Are you people for real? This is the basic Cincada, that's 2 med. lasers and a small. There are no autocannons on that mech.

Jesus.

if your theory is right, why is there a small red lens under the cockpit of the cicada?

I think maybe the artist was a bit wrong in time....
Time Paradox!

[Major Tom]

Orzorn, on 10 May 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

You know, I always liked the idea better that an RAC was more like a revolver in design. That is, it had a revolving cylinder but only used a single barrel. There's plenty of autocannons in real life that work that way, and it does increase firing rate because the reload rate is increased.

The purpose of a revolver (revolving cylinder) is to allow more shots before reload. The purpose of a rotory gun barrels is to keep the barrel cool by alternating shots through a differnt barrel.

And I would also like to point out that not every Rotary Autocannon is a RAC, but every RAC is and autocannon.
(just like every finger is not a thumb, but every thumb is a finger).

(my laser barrels comment was there only to illustrate how things represented in SARNA and TRO's are not the best or even correct way to represent mechs and weapons in this game)

[Phoenixfire]

Alex Iglesias, on 09 May 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

heck, the art for the clint features a triple barreled looking lbx ac, and those aren't even known for high rates of fire.

Maybe a sign of a mech we will see soon

[Alex Iglesias]

well the clint i was refering to is the iic version...soooo might have to wait a few years lol