37 replies to this topic

[CodeNameValtus]

Sneeky BERT, on 29 November 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

"10-12 rear CT armor, and 32 internal"
I am shooting close to 90 damage at optimal range for convergence and the client doesnt register anything out of the three torsos. Nore do I get crit hits with the strikes... yes I will chain fire them but just wanted to bring it to yalls attention and see if anyone else can confirm or try to confirm maybe a max damage issue going on here..
Hell maybe cryengine cant register that much damage per missile at once.

I agree, if you hit with 85-90% of the barrage and the entire back armor doesn't get stripped...something is definitely wrong. It's not THAT hard to line up to hit 30 / 36 missles on a non-moving rear armored target who doesn't know you are there. It should absolutely at least strip their entire back torso of armor and ping some crits into the internals. Heck, even against an Atlas, it should strip most of their entire back armor (red or deep red level), surely not yellow/red/yellow. If more hit the CT than sides, it should absolutely be enough to core most mechs.

I think what is happening, is that if the missle splash doesn't bridge the gap between the torso it's hitting and the next torso over, the splash is disregarded. Which means the dmg/missle the in-game guide gives you is incorrect. However, in a direct port from TT, it should ABSOLUTELY be an auto-core if you can land ~50+% of those missles in the same Rear Torso.

[LordBraxton]

Bilbo, on 29 November 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

The damage goes where you put it. If you hit em in the head or CT with enough damage, the mech pops.

The damage goes where you put it, but the enemy mech is NOT where your screen puts it!

[Bilbo]

CodeNameValtus, on 29 November 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

I agree, if you hit with 85-90% of the barrage and the entire back armor doesn't get stripped...something is definitely wrong. It's not THAT hard to line up to hit 30 / 36 missles on a non-moving rear armored target who doesn't know you are there. It should absolutely at least strip their entire back torso of armor and ping some crits into the internals. Heck, even against an Atlas, it should strip most of their entire back armor (red or deep red level), surely not yellow/red/yellow. If more hit the CT than sides, it should absolutely be enough to core most mechs.

I think what is happening, is that if the missle splash doesn't bridge the gap between the torso it's hitting and the next torso over, the splash is disregarded. Which means the dmg/missle the in-game guide gives you is incorrect. However, in a direct port from TT, it should ABSOLUTELY be an auto-core if you can land ~50+% of those missles in the same Rear Torso.

That's the problem with the Cat. You cannot reliably get all the damage to the spot at a range where the missiles aren't spread all over the entire mech. If you are close enough to do so the arms don't converge far enough.

[Sneeky BERT]

Bilbo, on 29 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

That's the problem with the Cat. You cannot reliably get all the damage to the spot at a range where the missiles aren't spread all over the entire mech. If you are close enough to do so the arms don't converge far enough.

Wait...what??? In my client that **** registers all up in the CT... They are in a prone state.

"where the missiles aren't spread all over the entire mech"
Ummmm I do Not UnderStand This At alL.. It is right there on the screen... 36 missiles converge and hit using the all powerful artemis to group a perfect cluster in CT.

[CodeNameValtus]

Sneeky BERT, on 29 November 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Wait...what??? In my client that **** registers all up in the CT... They are in a prone state.

"where the missiles aren't spread all over the entire mech"
Ummmm I do Not UnderStand This At alL.. It is right there on the screen... 36 missiles converge and hit using the all powerful artemis to group a perfect cluster in CT. Yet the mech doesn't insta-pop. No damage is splashed to the side torsos, and missles do not miss. The enemy mech was standing still and not moving for much longer than either of our combined ping rates, and as such, the missles all hit the same area.

fixed this for the ignorant.

Edited by CodeNameValtus, 29 November 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[Sneeky BERT]

CodeNameValtus, on 29 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

fixed this for the ignorant.

LOL Thanks Valtus.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

I've noticed this recently as well with a 4P hunchback loaded up with lasers - point blank shots that should kill, don't always do so, and don't even seem to do anywhere near adequate damage. OTOH, I've popped so many cockpits (and commandos) I know one shoting certainly IS possible in this game... just maybe not a torso

[CodeNameValtus]

But it should be possible. Your HBK-4P is a great example. Say you manage to walk your way around behind an unsuspecting mech, with your 9x Medium Lasers. 5 damage a piece x 9 = 45. This is more than enough to CT core an enemy HBK (12armor+32internal=44) and surely any light. Yet when you walk behind them....wait 6 seconds, and then just convergence (let's say you are ~75m behind them) alpha them in one location with pinpoint accuracy for the full beam duration. They don't die? It seems to me that 45 damage is enough to get through all that, just barely, but it's enough. They didn't see you coming so you should be able to get your full 1 sec beam duration on them before they realize what is happening and start to turn around. Both mechs were at a dead stop. You waited to make sure netcode/lag wouldn't be a factor...

How come they don't instantly die? I've seen this happen a few times. 6xSRM6's actually seem worse than 9x Medium Lasers for this. Because I often notice that after a 9x Medium Laser alpha, they aren't dead, yet you have stripped their armor, and possibly caused a couple internal crits, and eaten some internal armor. Yet with 6x SRM6's their armor is yellow/light red sometimes, and dark red other times, rarely do you get the full armor penetration you should get based on damage values of the weapon itself.

This NEEDS to be investigated by PGI.

[Stradivarious]

Can also vouch for there not being a cap. I one volley people fairly reliably if they're being stupid.

Edit: For the guy right above me, aim a little higher, that little nub that is the back of the head on the hunchback. You can hit it from behind and I can one shot it with 35 pts of damage, old school gangland style execution.

Edited by Stradivarious, 29 November 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Sneeky BERT]

Stradivarious, on 29 November 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Can also vouch for there not being a cap. I one volley people fairly reliably if they're being stupid.

Can you explain your loadout please?
Ive seen gauss cats one shot but I have never seen my laser hunch or srm cat one shot... There could be something inherently wrong with some coding somewhere, and it seems, like it may need to be investigated.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Max damage on the 'mech scale is irrelevant (just as it was in MW4)

And I'm pretty damn sure you can surpass 175 max damage on either the Atlas or Awesome with enough missiles / supplement weapons.

Edited by mwhighlander, 29 November 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[IamSeanConnery]

This needs to be investigated. I've been having the same issues with SRMs in general for awhile now. I think there are hit registration issues on SRMs. Either way I think this game has a problem with registering hits when there are a lot to register properly.
It's gotten bad enough I gave up putting SRMs on my atlases and switched to SSRMs. I would go into fights at 90m and alpha with a 2UAC5, 2ML and 3SRM6 and the damage was never adding up properly based on calculations.

Side note: Be careful, if this does get buffed then LRMs might be buffed as well since I think they probably suffer from this problem too, but due to the sheer number of them hitting which are attributed to "misses" (which really don't miss as often as thought) are ignored. LRMs will need a damage nerf. Just a heads up.

[IamSeanConnery]

Bilbo, on 29 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

That's the problem with the Cat. You cannot reliably get all the damage to the spot at a range where the missiles aren't spread all over the entire mech. If you are close enough to do so the arms don't converge far enough.

Regardless you agree there are issues though, yes? one volley of 6SRM6 should strip the entire back armor off and do internal damage to all 3 torso parts at the worst from a stationary back shot, optimal range, worst case scenario.

[Pr8Dator]

The only dumb missiles that are worth considering are the MRM40s!!!!! hehehee
(ok, I get it, that's not what you're talking about... yeah, missile damage tends to be spread over and 90 points of damage is nothing on an Atlas with 600 points of armor all round. I do 126 points of damage with my missiles per alpha and still I find it hard to kill stuffs... its just the way it is with missiles...)

Edited by Pr8Dator, 29 November 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Stingz, on 29 November 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

it's about 2.5 dmg/missile, and there is little/no damage transfer on destroyed parts

Is this true? I coulda swore that a destroyed arm would transfer any remaining damage that exceeded the armor/structure of that arm to the attached torso. Is this not true in MWO?

[One Medic Army]

Nope, since the hitbox of the destroyed part goes away (For some parts)
It would be weird if you shot off a Dragon's arm, and then fired again at the empty air where it used to be and hit their side torso.

If you fired at him from the side, the attack would continue in past where the arm hitbox was and hit the side torso hitbox though.

For legs: shooting a destroyed leg slows the mech.
For side torsos: some have claimed that shoting a destroyed side torso lets you deal damage directly to CT internals, I have seen no evidence of this.

Edited by One Medic Army, 29 November 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[Pr8Dator]

Lyoto Machida, on 29 November 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Is this true? I coulda swore that a destroyed arm would transfer any remaining damage that exceeded the armor/structure of that arm to the attached torso. Is this not true in MWO?

Not sure but I've always thought of the damage transfer system in TT to be a bit ridiculous... I've always argued against that when I played tabletop... like if I blow your arm off with a shotgun, the rest of the pellets goes into empty air, they don't make a miraculous 90degrees turn and hit your body.... right?

[IamSeanConnery]

Pr8Dator, on 29 November 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Not sure but I've always thought of the damage transfer system in TT to be a bit ridiculous... I've always argued against that when I played tabletop... like if I blow your arm off with a shotgun, the rest of the pellets goes into empty air, they don't make a miraculous 90degrees turn and hit your body.... right?

I think it was there to speed up game play and constant misses from random rolling on areas that shouldn't be targeted but since there was no real targeting system something needed to be done to edit those parts of the mechout as easily as possible. I think they should implement where you can see a destroyed left and right torso clearly and never implement damage transfer. It doesn't make sense to me for MWO.