19 replies to this topic

[Terror Teddy]

Yea, I'll probably go broke if my idea would be put into practice. This is a rough draft so pile in with ideas.

Lets remove blanket mission reward and 'guaranteed' winning.

Instead we reward:
-Participation
-Performance
-Productivity

Participation
This one is about staying alive. Each player receive 10K for each minute they stay alive. The longer the match the bigger the payout.

Performance
As well as XP for assisting and killing you also gain an equivalent cash reward. Let's say 10K per XP.

Quote

EDIT:

Kill rewards are removed. You gain XP and cash based on damage percentage done to a target as a killing blow can be completely random.

Productivity
Base Capture, Spotting, AMS defense, ECM usage etc gains you an equivalent cash bonus of 10K per XP point reward for such activities.

The winning team gains the difference between match start and when the mission ends as a Participation reward.

No Easy Mode
For each of the enemy team alive the winning team productivity reward is reduced by an equivalent percentage at the end of the match.

Thus committing suicide will help the opposing team and a quick base capture will be just as punishing because if non of the enemy is killed the reward for beelining to the enemy base will net 0.

The only reward for beelining would be the capture reward and nothing else so they gain ONLY a reward for their performance. And ONLY the capturing PLAYERS get that reward, this could be punishing for the rest of the team.

So if both teams decide to sit on their *** to gain 150K because they are lazy and kill no-one they will get ZERO participation reward.

A suicide BOT would not earn very much as their survival time is usually limited.

This of course will affect those who have random DC's and crashes but no system is perfect.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 30 November 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[Secundus]

Players should also get some bonuses or rewards for sticking closish to one another. AFKers would then receive none as the team walks away, and scouts could still get rewards through their support functions. This could also punish, to a degree, players that cowardly run away from battle rather than standing their ground and fighting like a man.

Edited by Secundus, 30 November 2012 - 12:19 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

Secundus, on 30 November 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

This could also punish, to a degree, players that cowardly run away from battle rather than standing their ground and fighting like a man.

But this is tricky. What is a tactical withdrawal and what is fleeing? If a scout runs from a pitched battle is he fleeing or doing his job?

[Karyudo ds]

Bunch of threads on this it seems but interesting thoughts.

I don't think I would punish a quick base capture. Maybe make it much more worth your while to actually defend the thing. Personally, I would add another. Either a neutral base to capture or give each team TWO of them. That way no team could simply swoop in an capture-win because they'd have to do it twice. Which wouldn't make it impossible for lazy defense but not all teams are perfect either.

Of course they said there would be other game modes... maybe they will reward differently.

[Terror Teddy]

Karyudo ds, on 30 November 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Bunch of threads on this it seems but interesting thoughts.

I don't think I would punish a quick base capture. Maybe make it much more worth your while to actually defend the thing.

Hmm, perhaps that would be better.

After an enemy team capture base X they have to actually DEFEND their capture for X minutes and the team who lost their base also loose their objective to capture the other base - their objective now is to take back their base within that time.

So the mission goes from Capture VS Capture to an Attacker VS Defender mode. This means that one could tailor a team to be either offensive or defensive and plan to capture or loose a base.

[Pantherjay]

Suiciders ALREADY help the other team.

[p00k]

as there's no way to transfer currency, a suicider is just someone grinding cbills to be able to play the game enjoyably. as frustrating as it is to have them on your team, create a totally free account and experience the trial grind for yourself. after a few matches you quickly realize, unless you're fighting other trial mechs, that you're about as useful playing seriously against min-maxed builds as you would be suiciding (i.e. not at all)

i hate having suiciders on my team, but trials are just terribad

i'd rather not frustrate their efforts further by forcing them to suicide even more to earn the same amount of money to finally be able to play the game without being stuck in a gimped mech. then you'll have people suiciding for weeks instead of just days

Edited by p00k, 30 November 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

p00k, on 30 November 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

that you're about as useful playing seriously against min-maxed builds as you would be suiciding (i.e. not at all)

Dunno, I never minmax so I wouldn't know.

The problem in this case is not the Trials but rather how the mission and the XP system is designed today as it is more rewarding to suicide than to actually play through a match. Hopefully something that will change as the game is still in production.

[p00k]

Terror Teddy, on 30 November 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

Dunno, I never minmax so I wouldn't know.

The problem in this case is not the Trials but rather how the mission and the XP system is designed today as it is more rewarding to suicide than to actually play through a match. Hopefully something that will change as the game is still in production.

i disagree. if the trials weren't an absolute pain to play, if they didn't feel like a handicap, if you could actually enjoy playing in a trial mech, then the need to suicide wouldn't be as pressing. sure people would still do it since having your own mech still has advantages, but making the trial experience less miserable would certainly help

if the vegetables taste good, a kid is more likely to eat it normally on his way to dessert

[Terror Teddy]

p00k, on 30 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

i disagree. if the trials weren't an absolute pain to play, if they didn't feel like a handicap, if you could actually enjoy playing in a trial mech,

Perhaps. Hopefully we will see those abominations go away and all new players get a standard Flea or perhaps a Spider. If the trial mechs were just as any other mech then it would be very easy to grind with them. They would almost be founders mechs without cash bonus - 4 mechs you ALWAYS have.

[Kurayami]

where do i sign?

some numbers are too big - participation reward in particular. it could be changed into actual participation ie player survived for 15 minutes - this is 150k. but of those 15 minutes only 75% of the time he was active - spot target shooting moving ecm etc or at leas was in close proximity to the action so maybe he should have only those 75%? but overall this - i will gladly play by those rules.

Edited by Kurayami, 30 November 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

Kurayami, on 30 November 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

but of those 15 minutes only 75% of the time he was active - spot target shooting moving ecm etc or at leas was in close proximity to the action so maybe he should have only those 75%?

I dunno, that would punish people who just take a bit longer to move into position or who play snipers and happen to pick a bad spot with little action.

[Kurayami]

Terror Teddy, on 30 November 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

I dunno, that would punish people who just take a bit longer to move into position or who play snipers and happen to pick a bad spot with little action.

well variables for math behind said % could be adjusted. without this or severely reduced reward for participation some people could just afk their way hoping that at least someone will do something just like afk suicide farmers now but slower.

variant of said system currently working well enough in war thunder, but they decided to go both ways - reward is kinda small compared to other types and adjusted to % of battle activity.

[Teralitha]

The one and only metric that rewards both good and bad players alike according to their contribution to the end result is damage. When you think about the other suggestions, they are flawed in one way or another.

You should still get a reward for winning, and a reward for kill/assist, salvage and spotting, But damage done should have the most weight while reducing the others. Trial mechs should get a win/loss reward only, and at no reduction, with the following numbers -

Win = 75000
Loss = 50000
Kills/assist = 3000
Spotting = 3000
Damage Done x100
Salvage 2.5% instead of 2%

With those numbers the end result is more weighted towards what you contribute to the battle, and less on just showing up.

Edited by Teralitha, 30 November 2012 - 02:32 AM.

[Zeke Steiner]

I talked about this with someone else the other day and they brought up a good point. The game should do away with the rearming and repairing bill but only reward performance, productivity and a win bonus. Another thread talked of locking all of your mechs from dropping untill the current match is over.

I don't believe these implementations would stop suicide farmers, but hopefully it would cut down their numbers.

Course the biggest problem with what I said is that it would make it very difficult for new players to ever get their own mech. @.> No easy answer for this.

Edited by Zeke Steiner, 30 November 2012 - 02:47 AM.

[Triggerhippy]

Not a bad idea, I think your figures are a bit high and there is still lots of exploites (such as intentionally letting the battles go full length just to get that little bit extra) but not a bad suggestion at all.

[Teralitha]

Zeke Steiner, on 30 November 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

I talked about this with someone else the other day and they brought up a good point. The game should do away with the rearming and repairing bill but only reward performance, productivity and a win bonus. Another thread talked of locking all of your mechs from dropping untill the current match is over.

I don't believe these implementations would stop suicide farmers, but hopefully it would cut down their numbers.

Course the biggest problem with what I said is that it would make it very difficult for new players to ever get their own mech. @.> No easy answer for this.

If we do away with re-arm and repair, then we also do away with win/loss reward and just go straight up performance only, with salvage being the extra bonus for winning(excluding trial mechs, only performance reward for them)

Kills/assists = 2000
Spotting = 2000
Damage done = x10
Salvage = 2.5%
Base cap = 5000
Base cap assist = 2500
Oh yea.. Team Kill = -15000

With these numbers you might see an average of about 30k-40k per win and around 5k-15k for a loss. Max possible for a win being around 150k with salvage being the majority of that. Maybe damage x15 or x20.

You know, players make money win or lose now, with repair-rearm, so why even have it. You can still make the game a grind without it by simplifying the other variables.

Anyone see a problem with this? if not... lets do it. Honestly I can only see positive outcomes from this....

If ppl afk, they get nothing but a salvage bonus if the team wins. Suiciders get zero. Team killers could actually lose money. Everyone has to participate if they want to make cbills and advance in the game.

Edited by Teralitha, 30 November 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[TheFlayedman]

Haha the 3 P's. They stand for something different at my work.

[Terror Teddy]

TheFlayedman, on 30 November 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

Haha the 3 P's. They stand for something different at my work.

**** Poor Performance?

[Terror Teddy]

Teralitha, on 30 November 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

Team killers could actually lose money.

I actually forgot those.

Killing your own teammates gives money to the enemy AND an easier match. Keeping your team alive, even AFK'ers is a bonus and they will not stay alive long if everyone think they can just go AFK as the enemy stomps over them.

AFK or DC should be easy to track since they usually do not move. I'm pretty sure a player usually do SOMETHING even when standing still at the same place but AFK and DC players would simply send location data to PGI server and could be classified as AFK and not affect match result and gain NO reward.