88 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Daemian, on 01 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

This right here.

This game needs to balance based on how it works in game.

Get over tt rules.

With that's said, the ppc does do a little bit of damage under 90. I know because I finished off a leg with a standard ppc once.

There are things that should be adhered to.

Minimum range of the standard PPC is an additional balancing mechanic to keep a long range sniping weapon from being utilized at close range.

It's just like why gauss needs it's 60m minimum range... and LRM's have their arming distance. It's all balancing.

I don't care if it's explained by unicorn farts and fairy dust. These "minimum ranges" are there for balance reasons for a good reason, be it tabletop or FPS mechsim. even the old Battletech SImulator Pods had this into account if I remember right.

Honestly that's where MWO should be taking it's data from, those.

[hashinshin]

I think TT players would be less hated if in every single thread arguing for better balance or more sense in weapons there wasn't ALWAYS a snobbish TT player talking down to us on why Picard was the better captain.


I just KNEW going in to this thread that there would be multiple TT players ignoring logic and just throwing RULES BOOK, RULES BOOK around.

Edited by hashinshin, 02 December 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[Lord Ikka]

Minimum range balances over high heat when you are talking about PPCs versus ERPPCs. Since the damage scales down from 90m, it still means that you do damage under 90m, just less than you would beyond that. If you don't like that, use an ERPPC and try to balance the fact that two ERPPCs have the same heat as three regular PPCs. For the most part, I don't have a problem with the regular, I take shots when beyond 90m and even lower depending on the situation.

[Vincent Lynch]

Sajuk Kar, on 02 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

It's just the opposite, the range of the LL goes from 450 to 675 with the ER, and the max range from 900 to 1350. Thats a difference of 225 and 450 meters.

The PPC has a range of 540 and 810 for the ER, max range of 1080 and 1620. That's a difference of 270 and 520 meters. So with the ERPPC you get an even bigger range increase and no minimum range all for just one more heat than the using ERLL over LL.

I forgot that the ERLL was buffed. It was only 570m in TT.

[Onyx Rain]

Jade Kitsune, on 02 December 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

There are things that should be adhered to.

Minimum range of the standard PPC is an additional balancing mechanic to keep a long range sniping weapon from being utilized at close range.

It's just like why gauss needs it's 60m minimum range... and LRM's have their arming distance. It's all balancing.

I don't care if it's explained by unicorn farts and fairy dust. These "minimum ranges" are there for balance reasons for a good reason, be it tabletop or FPS mechsim. even the old Battletech SImulator Pods had this into account if I remember right.

Honestly that's where MWO should be taking it's data from, those.

I'm all for balance but the fact is min ranges make the guns un-fun to play for a large portion of the player base. Maybe not you, and if you or others don't really use those weapons/and or hate to face them in battle you may not care, but they flat our ruin it for many of us.

In the case of gauss there isn't really another weapon that is very good at all ranges, ppc/min range, erppc to hot to be viable in most builds, erlarge not that great and to hot. I don't see an issue with one weapon that is good across all ranges as long as it isn't game breaking, and seeing that the gauss is OP/Gauss needs to be fixed crowd is just a vocal minority, little if anything needs to be done to the gun IMO (and that of the majority)

There are other balancing mechanics they can take advantage of before resorting to a min range....

gameplay >/= Smart balancing that takes into account what sells and what most people find fun > Crappy fun killing blancing mechanics like min-range

Edited by Onyx Rain, 03 December 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[MeepSire]

no, PPC is energy. Read the MWO wiki page.
the ERPPC has no min range if you really heve to have a ppc... but it spews heat.
and THE MIN RANGE IS PART OF THE WEAPONS CHARACTER...
and you should really carry backup weapons...

[Onyx Rain]

MeepSire, on 03 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

no, PPC is energy. Read the MWO wiki page.
the ERPPC has no min range if you really heve to have a ppc... but it spews heat.
and THE MIN RANGE IS PART OF THE WEAPONS CHARACTER...
and you should really carry backup weapons...

In the fluff/TT ya...in actual gameplay min-range it isn't fun, ruins the weapon for a large number of people...gameplay>then tt rules/fluff

Backup weapons are great, I have mixed loadouts on most of my builds but I'm still out that 10+ damage if I get in a brawl, while facing other mechs that may do 60 dmg total i'm doing 50 or less....huge disadvantage, and the sniping advantage with all but gauss isn't worth it in this game at this point IMO. (and I think most other's opinions)

Edited by Onyx Rain, 03 December 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

Dagnome, on 01 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

I am aware they got rid of min ranges for Ballistics and that falls back into the argument of "How TT rules do not always apply piratically in the digital world". Why dont we just remove the min range on LRM's while were at it? When the EMP effect is in and if the PPC had no minimum range then you would be in theory "EMP'ing" yourself. How many of you would then cry and say "well lets take off the min range for damage but have a minimum range for the EMP effect". This discussion could go in circles for a while couldn't it?

Theres no, "in theory" at all bro..youre NOT hitting yourself with your own PPC damage.....

gah..

LRMS can be fired in relative safety...thats why they need the minimum range, and also because SRMS exist already... If there were NO srms, i would say yes, remove the LRM minimum range.

Its not circular...at ....all.

[Sajuk Kar]

Dagnome, on 01 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

I am aware they got rid of min ranges for Ballistics and that falls back into the argument of "How TT rules do not always apply piratically in the digital world". Why dont we just remove the min range on LRM's while were at it?

If you take the minimum range off of LRM's, SRM's have no purpose. We would have just one all purpose missile.

Dagnome, on 01 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

When the EMP effect is in and if the PPC had no minimum range then you would be in theory "EMP'ing" yourself. How many of you would then cry and say "well lets take off the min range for damage but have a minimum range for the EMP effect".

I'm fine with the emp effect effecting both people at close range. Either without damage with the field inhibitor turn on, or with damage with it off.

Dagnome, on 01 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

This discussion could go in circles for a while couldn't it?

Only for people who "want to have their cake and eat it too", which is not what balance is about.

Edited by Sajuk Kar, 04 December 2012 - 06:50 AM.