100 replies to this topic

[verybad]

How about changing the ER damage after optimal range to go down to 75% rather than 50% at maximum range?

ER weapons are highly inoptimal, this might give them some of their pizazz back,

[SteelPaladin]

The TT bonus (for reference, before the "not TT!" crowd starts screaming) for ER weapons was accuracy (since targets would generally be in mid or short range while they'd be in long range for other weapons). I would love to see them get higher projectile velocity (ER PPC) and shorter burn time (ER lasers) to boost their accuracy at longer distance.

[VoidConductor]

Maybe better to bring real long range maps first, where the range really matter.
Atm. you can sneak anyway if you like to do so. This will be supported by HQ position which you can't defend from caping at long range.

But anyhow ER large weapons need some tweaks. I like your so suggestion Verybad.
I would like also to see better balancing of energy weapons towards fair DPS/t values and hard hitting longer reload for ER-Large Laser and ER-PPC. PPC and LL need to be in the middle of balance between recycle and base damage. SmLas and MedLasers higher recycles and lower base damage.

And not to forget:

• - (ER) PPC velocity buff (+removing of ballistic physics).
  
• - (ER) LL lower duration

The balancing tendency for energy weapons should be something like:

• Long range: high base damage, long recycle, high velocity or short duration.
  
• Short range: low base damage, low recycle, acceptable duration and higher DPS/t

Edited by VoidConductor, 30 November 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[BlackSquirrel]

VoidConductor, on 30 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Maybe better to bring real long range maps first, where the range really matter.
Atm. you can sneak anyway if you like to do so. This will be supported by HQ position which you can't defend from caping at long range.

But anyhow ER large weapons need some tweaks. I like your so suggestion Verybad.
I would like also to see better balancing of energy weapons towards fair DPS/t values and hard hitting longer reload for ER-Large Laser and ER-PPC. PPC and LL need to be in the middle of balance between recycle and base damage. SmLas and MedLasers higher recycles and lower base damage.

And not to forget:

• - (ER) PPC velocity buff (+removing of ballistic physics).
  
• - (ER) LL lower duration

The balancing tendency for energy weapons should be something like:

• Long range: high base damage, long recycle, high velocity or short duration.
  
• Short range: low base damage, low recycle, acceptable duration and higher DPS/t

Pretty much this.

The current maps favor brawling.

[Vlad Ward]

The fact that a thread titled "ER weapons" was started by a player named "verybad" makes me chuckle.

I have no other input on this topic.

[SpiralRazor]

They need a shorter burn time....ive been saying this for six months now.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

verybad, on 30 November 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

How about changing the ER damage after optimal range to go down to 75% rather than 50% at maximum range?

ER weapons are highly inoptimal, this might give them some of their pizazz back,

Would you go as far to say...

*sunglasses*

ER weapons are very bad?

YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[JohnnyWayne]

As long as DHS aren't dual, there will be no viable use for ER - Weapons. ER - weapons are technically advanced weapons of the base weapon like PPC's oder LL with extended range but they produce considerably more heat and DHS were used to make them viable in the first place. Just look at clan mechs. All of them mount ER - weapons if possible / existing such as DHS.

I've recently tried ER-PPC's combined with DHS and well, they sucked hard...

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 30 November 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

The most popular ideas around the studio for this currently:
1) Make LL/ERLL have very quick fire time - about fast as a SL.
2) Make PPC shots hit much, much, much, much faster and have less heat.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Garth Erlam, on 30 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

The most popular ideas around the studio for this currently:
1) Make LL/ERLL have very quick fire time - about fast as a SL.
2) Make PPC shots hit much, much, much, much faster and have less heat.

Also, please up the damage on PPCs from 10 to 12.

Thank you!

[Fate 6]

BlackSquirrel, on 30 November 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

Pretty much this.

The current maps favor brawling.

^
Even the Gauss and LRM mechs have, of late, become pretty sub-optimal as beefy brawlers (SRM/SSRM Cats, CTFs, etc) have become rampant. There are still a few people that will complain about them, but I rarely have issues against them, and if I die to one it's because I misplayed and got caught in the open.

EDIT: To clarify, these mechs are more common now because speed isn't necessary when the maps are smaller with abundant cover. Even the most open map, Caustic, has the 3 line to run down.

Edited by Fate 6, 30 November 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[Zeh]

Garth Erlam, on 30 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

The most popular ideas around the studio for this currently:
1) Make LL/ERLL have very quick fire time - about fast as a SL.
2) Make PPC shots hit much, much, much, much faster and have less heat.

Just to clarify,
For 1), You're talking about beam duration, not weapon cycle time, right?

I assume you mean beam duration? If so, that sounds great.

[verybad]

Problem with lowered burn time is that they aren't supposed to be more accurate at close ranges, and this cuts into Pulse weapons territory.

[Sephlock]

The issue with lowering the duration on ERLlas is that you risk turning them into superior versions of LPlas.

I'd be fine with making them do more damage at range.

[Elizander]

Garth Erlam, on 30 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

The most popular ideas around the studio for this currently:
1) Make LL/ERLL have very quick fire time - about fast as a SL.
2) Make PPC shots hit much, much, much, much faster and have less heat.

You don't have to implement it all at once. You can do it one tweak at a time just so you don't overbuff anything. I do think that Large Lasers are already doing decently as a weapon. Improving the fire time will help it in long range fights where the enemy usually has cover and you'd also want to be ducking quickly from LRMs. If you do increase it though, what would happen to the Large Pulse Laser's role?

PPCs hitting faster would be great, but watch out for the heat on the regular ones. I think the heat on the regular PPCs are close to okay and they are just bothered mostly by minimum range. Making PPCs deal 7 damage when targets are under 90m would be a big improvement. ER PPCs are pretty hard to use even if they are your only three weapons so that might need looking into in terms of heat. I don't think you need to worry about builds that use 4 PPCs / ER PPCs. I think most people would be happy to be able to use 2 of them (with the appropriate amount of sinks) more reliably. Right now heat is the (ER) PPC's ammo and you effectively get less shots than an AC20. You simply lose out on sustained damage when brawling or sniping compared to ballistic weapons. You'll have to hide and effectively be out of the fight for a long time, leaving your team to fend for themselves.

[BlackSquirrel]

Garth Erlam, on 30 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

The most popular ideas around the studio for this currently:
1) Make LL/ERLL have very quick fire time - about fast as a SL.
2) Make PPC shots hit much, much, much, much faster and have less heat.

I like the harder punch idea.

[BoomDog]

I personally love ERLLs, so by all means, buff them

[Kobold]

SteelPaladin, on 30 November 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

(for reference, before the "not TT!" crowd starts screaming)

The "not TT!" crowd has the underlying problem that we're already using large chunks of TT (notably the weight and tonnage), but not the other balancing factors. Often the suggested fixes to things (see discussions about gauss, streaks, LRMs, ECM) involve deviating even MORE from TT, when I'd argue that the best fixes involve going back.

I think you make an excellent point, especially in regards to the PPC. Give it a nearly instant projectile, and suddenly it becomes a scary sniper weapon because it is easy to hit targets with, which might make up for its heat issues.

[Garth Erlam]

To be clear, popular ideas were: Faster PPC projectile; shorter bean duration for LL/ERLL; much less heat on PPC.

[VoidConductor]

Garth Erlam, on 30 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

The most popular ideas around the studio for this currently:
1) Make LL/ERLL have very quick fire time - about fast as a SL.
2) Make PPC shots hit much, much, much, much faster and have less heat.

Thank you for information!
I hope you will keep in mind to separate the roles of these weapons. Something like:


ER-PPC: sniping
ER-LL: sniping / long range
PPC: long range / mid range / harass
LL: harass / brawl / mid range
LPL: brawl range

recycle: LPL < LL < PPC / ER-LL << ER-PPC
damage: ER-PPC > ER-LL / PPC > LL LPL

Since AC's do the opposite and Guass is equal to ER-PPC

This actually could be a possibility how to balance Clan weapons by giving them slightly advantage in DPS/t and disadvantage in heat Additionally higher reload times and higher base damage compared to IS counterparts.