339 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

First off... If the DEVS want to merge this thread with another please do. I wanted to bring up a point but was not willing to hunt down all the posts in other threads to make my point.


Ok... Soooo many are complaining about ranges of weapons in the game and that it seems like this is going to be a close up in your face slug battle type of game. Someone even complained about the LRMs only having a range of 630 meters. This is not MW games of the past where range has no meaning. This is going to be a thinking mans MW game and the DEVS have got the ranges right for a change. You cry about wanting tactics... Well you got it. Being able to snipe from the other end of the board is hardly tactical. Leave the extreme long range to you LONG TOM artillery units lol. Back to the crying over the LRM range. Again, the DEVS got it right. In classic table top 1 hex is 30 meters for range. LRMs have a max range of 21 hexes. 21 hexes by 30 meters is... Do the math... 630 meters. That's dead on with the game guys.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 10 May 2012 - 12:54 PM.

[Ryokochan]

As someone said in another Thread MW4 ruined a whole generation of mechwarriors.

[Ethicus]

Yoseful Mallad...
I can appreciate that

Personally i agree totally with you. I think the ranges as of now create a need for more skill based combat. When you have a player on your team who is a die-hard catapult pilot, and every game he miraculously gets the most kills on your team whille only using LRMs and a few med lasers. Respect is earned.

I saw a few people complaing about the minimum range of the PPC, and once again, i think it adds that much more necessity for skill. It will make players act a certain way around mechs. When you see an awesome on the horizon, that light mech that you may have taken for granteed comes in handy when he NARCs a target from a close range letting that Pro catapult player in the battlefield rain death. this occuring of course, while your light scout is flanking the Awesome from every direction while its still unable to get a clear shot with its PPCs

The ranges they have chosen were chosen for a reason and i think they are doing a good job at it so far..

[HellHat]

You speak the truth my good man!


People only ever complain about the damn distances, because they just want keep using the same tactic over and over, instead of using their head outside of the Mechlab.

Edited by HellHat, 10 May 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

I refuse to play this game if I cant shoot someone atleast 50 kilometers away without having to see him and appreciate all of the devs hard work on modeling, and the game.


*spoiler alert* sarcasm intended.

[SNOWHOUND]

True that.

Though Ill reserve judgement on how it affects us untill we actually play.
As of now its all speculation and moaning.

[neodym]

I totally disagree with OP,tabletop is tabletop and pc game is pc game........ I was shooting LRM at 1000meters all those years in MW2,MW3 and MW4

I am dissapointed that LRM cant be fired without lock on,under 200meters with max range of 640 meters witch is more than 33% decrease from previous games with bad accurancy,ammo problems and not impressive damage

like I am dissapointed,yeah funk me who I am just little no one but its like that and thats the way it is,MW3 nailed it.... the weapons behaviour,dmg,visuals,feel were spot on,maybe I was too optimistic that someone can 14 years later stand up to that standard...

Edited by neodym, 10 May 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Hakija]

this is going to to really interesting when clan tech starts showing up. dedicated IS players (myself included) will need to use serious strategy to close the distance where our weapons can hit.

[neodym]

Ryokochan, on 10 May 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

As someone said in another Thread MW4 ruined a whole generation of mechwarriors.

who say that,MW4 wasnt good as MW2 or MW3 but is was good game at the time,I certainly loved it back in the day

[Evinthal]

I agree completely with this. As previous (MW3/MW4) games have made it into a snipe fest with whoever could pack on the most PPCs/LRMs/Gauss. The ranges needed to be cranked down a notch, not only to get back to the CBT heritage but to make for a more diverse or interesting game. It also makes different 'mechs better for different things, and hopefully will lead to people balancing out lances to help cover each other.

[neodym]

Evinthal, on 10 May 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

I agree completely with this. As previous (MW3/MW4) games have made it into a snipe fest with whoever could pack on the most PPCs/LRMs/Gauss. The ranges needed to be cranked down a notch, not only to get back to the CBT heritage but to make for a more diverse or interesting game. It also makes different 'mechs better for different things, and hopefully will lead to people balancing out lances to help cover each other.

it was more fault of maps being played than range,,,, flat,open,cover less maps is where PPC,LRM,Gauss should own and there nothing wrong with it,trying to fix that with range nerf is wrong as the problem is in maps,give us many many super tight maps with tons of cover everybody will use AC20 and you will be like "oh gotta nerf ACs becose this is just one big cannon fest it sucks"

Edited by neodym, 10 May 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Cold3y3s]

I like diverse weapon ranges, with the LRMs its nice to make the pilots have to be relatively close to give and thus allowing for the other team to take them out.

[Creed Buhallin]

Both sides need to chill out on this. Range is only part of the equation. Obsessing over range - either that it will be good or bad - is simply wrong unless you consider terrain, objectives, accuracy, teams, module capabilities, weapon recycle time, speed, armor... everything. You can't judge the impact of shorter ranges based on how things worked on the ping-pong table terrain of previous MechWarrior games, any more than you can judge the impact of a longer range here based on the idiotically munchtastic customization options of the mechlabs in those games.

I've played plenty of online BattleTech beyond the various MechWarrior games - all the way back to the text-based MU*s of the early-mid 90s. That was realtime, and did perfectly fine with existent ranges, because the rest of the game worked. Judge the game, not one tiny feature of it.

[Ravager AI]

Personally I welcome the path the devs have taken with MW:O.

A good example of this is actually what I've seen people complain about, LRMs. I mean, 630 meters of indirect fire is an insane advantage in the hands of a good player. But not so much that it gives them an unfair advantage since there are still plenty of ways to counter it.

And the fact that weapons go past their maximum effective range instead of just stopping like in MW4 still gives you a way to play sniper if you so desperately want to. You'll just have to deal with reduced damage and aim (especially using ballistic weaponry), but it is still possible.

Just my two C-Bills on the subject.

[Anelor Galor]

Mhh i remember packing 3 ER-PPC and pretty much 1 shoted everything on MW2 before they got close to me. I am glad the ranges are according to rule set. Like taking out a jumpship from behind a hill in MW4 Merc. Not very difficult when your ranges are OP.

Thumbs up Devs, ignore the winning and keep ironic your shirts for release date!

[wwiiogre]

Besides, had the PGI devs not brought the ranges back to tabletop reality (which means they didn't nerf it, but Microsoft escalated it beyond reason), there would be no major difference when the Clan shows up with their hyper accurate long range sniping abilities. Which in the end will be hugely different to what the IS will be doing. Perhaps you might realize PGI may have forseen this and is making the game so that essential difference between IS/Clan weapons and accuracy becomes like it was in the books/fiction scary and otherworldly.

So pucker your bum when and if you meet the clan because you will have 18 months or so of ingame muscle memory and habits that will get shattered the first time you meet up with clan tech, just as the fictional characters encountered and us poor old IS tabletop players encountered. To me this is immersion in the best way and I hope PGI can pull this off. 18 months of bad habits dealing with weapons that reach out at max 630 meters or so, will change the way we play. Intentional, I think so and I am happy about it.

Think big picture where MWO will be in three years, clan invasion, ERPPC, ClanGauss, etc. Targeting computers that allow them to pick exact locations at range for impact, quicker convergence or set convergence based on a cockpit setting. Perhaps these are in our future, and the reason they aren't in yet, is the impact of the introduction will be immersive, hit you hard on the battlefield when you encounter it. Which means emotional and for me that is a win.

Chris

[LordKnightFandragon]

So LRM's fire 630m? How far do they have PPCs firing? Ranges do reallyt seem short when you compare it to WoT which has a max visual range of 500m, and Tanks at 500 are pretty well the size of your reticule...now make that a Mech......the things are going to pretty well fill up the reticule and then some. Its going to seem rather close.......Of course, when has range ever meant jack in MW games? It always ends up being a close in brawl anyway...200m or less....so really, shorter ranges wont mean ****..Just another reason I dont like Gauss or PPC...they are long range snipers, the game always ends up a bar fight....

[Too Tall Kowalsky]

The bigest problem with comparing the attributs of a given weapon to the previous Mechwarrior games is probably the fact that, at least from how I've interpreted what they've told us, the devs are leaning more on sources from Battletech and not previousMechwarrior titles. Seeing as the table top came first and, as much as I loved MW to MW3, the table-top was always more engaging to play. While I do have to agree that I wish you could blind-fire missiles, it negates the whole "work as a team" concept. Frankly, I'm OK with no blind-fire as long as they stop the circle-strafe legacy; something they seem to have done even not taking into account shorter ranges. LoS is more important and terrain is more intricate thanks to a more advanced game engine. Besides, giving LRMs and PPCs -- more dedicated long range weapons -- adisadvantage is good. It gives those fire-support units something that a smart player can exploit or a reason that a player might want to pick a different load-out (hint: missile launchers designed for *gasp* short range) or a different chassis all-together. You shouldn't be able to have your LRMs and eat them too, that's just more intelligent game design.

[PANZERBUNNY]

There are many aspects that the whiner goons aren't taking into consideration.

This is a simulator.

One thing that most of these games CAN'T replicate very well is the battlefield environment and it's visual limitations to the tank/mech/whatever gunner.

A weapon may have a max range of a mile, but in combat situations your common range of engagement may be 250-350ft due to accuracy fall off due to lack of reliable visuals.

Constant smoke and weather are lag bombs and are pretty much left out of simulators. We'll see how much of that they add. A scout eith smoke bombs to run ahead and drop would be hella cool.

I agree that players of previous games are spoiled snipers when the range whines reer their heads.

Ideally on 95% of the maps this whine won't be an issue because open field fighting should be a thing of the past. Battles happen over areas of interest, not barren fields of waste. Your commanders will make sure of that.

Even if a mech with lots of long range potential has say 2 "turns" of target lock and firing, a committed mech that is closing the distance will close the distance. You 'll get a few shots and he'll be running around you like a cheetah on crack with lasers.

Stick with your lance mates. If you decide to run solo you'll probably get mauled.

Of course...weapon skills could very well increase weapons range a bit. Do we know?

The one thing I look forward too are the whines about "my LRM's and PPC's are not working while other mechs are brawling me at close range." <----it'll happen.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 10 May 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[Ravager AI]

PANZERBUNNY, on 10 May 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

The one thing I look forward too are the whines about "my LRM's and PPC's are not working while other mechs are brawling me at close range." <----it'll happen.

Eeeuyup...

And I will be there to witness it as I am actually in great favour of Autocannons and SRMs.

I just hope it won't be a massive rage-fest because of it. :/