27 replies to this topic

[Umbra Fox]

One thing I have been curious about for a while now;

In Mechwarrior4: Mercenaries at one point you can claim a Star Colonel (Jade Falcon called Aisa Thastus) as a bondsmen if you complete a particular mission. Later on if in one of the endings you end up in a Trial of Position to join Clan Wolf.

I assume that she would then become a bondsman to Clan Wolf. My question is if that is the case would it ever be possible for her to challenge for the bloodname a second time or would the dishonour of falling to an IS mercenary company prevent this possibility?

I know that if it was another clan she would be able to keep the bloodname after reclaiming the right to be a warrior but I assume that she loses the right to it if claimed by a member of the IS.

Thanks

[Hawkeye 72]

Good question. I am currently racking my brain to remember if this ever occurred in lore.

While it is true she was taken bondsmen by an Inner Sphere unit, if that mercenary was accepted into a Clan via Trial of Position then clearly this mercenary is accepted as being "on par" with a Clan warrior, in which case the dishonor removes itself possibly?

I will go do some reading

[Yvraith]

In all the times I have played it, I have never got that ending....
I'm going to have to go back & play through it again until I do....

[Hakija]

if memory serves, in the wolf clan you have to have a sponsor from one of the bloodname houses to compete for their name after it opens up (i.e. they die). That just depends entirely on the individual bloodnamed people. Some won't care as long you show yourself to be a capable warrior, and others are incredibly prejudiced about such things.

Lethal Heritage is the only book I've read that deals with this in detail. Phelan Wolf was sponsored by Cyrilla Ward to fight for her bloodname. But her endorsement only allowed him to compete, it didn't guarantee him anything.

[Hawkeye 72]

To add to Hakiyah, it would also depend on the Clan as well. The aformentioned warrior would have better luck in a Warden Clan, and even then they might have to fight a trial of refusal if a certain officer was irked by the move.

[Stormwolf]

Umbra Fox, on 10 May 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

One thing I have been curious about for a while now;

In Mechwarrior4: Mercenaries at one point you can claim a Star Colonel (Jade Falcon called Aisa Thastus) as a bondsmen if you complete a particular mission. Later on if in one of the endings you end up in a Trial of Position to join Clan Wolf.

I assume that she would then become a bondsman to Clan Wolf. My question is if that is the case would it ever be possible for her to challenge for the bloodname a second time or would the dishonour of falling to an IS mercenary company prevent this possibility?

It does not work that way, she would not be part of Clan Wolf unless she also participated in a trial of position. She also does not need to challenge for a Bloodname again since she already has one and will keep it to the day she dies.

Umbra Fox, on 10 May 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

I know that if it was another clan she would be able to keep the bloodname after reclaiming the right to be a warrior but I assume that she loses the right to it if claimed by a member of the IS.

Thanks

There are no cases of this for as far as I know.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Umbra Fox, on 10 May 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

One thing I have been curious about for a while now;

In Mechwarrior4: Mercenaries at one point you can claim a Star Colonel (Jade Falcon called Aisa Thastus) as a bondsmen if you complete a particular mission. Later on if in one of the endings you end up in a Trial of Position to join Clan Wolf.

I assume that she would then become a bondsman to Clan Wolf. My question is if that is the case would it ever be possible for her to challenge for the bloodname a second time or would the dishonour of falling to an IS mercenary company prevent this possibility?

I know that if it was another clan she would be able to keep the bloodname after reclaiming the right to be a warrior but I assume that she loses the right to it if claimed by a member of the IS.

Thanks

She does not lose her Bloodname to begin with so there is no need to reclaim it. A Bloodname can only be taken away by a Khan's decree or a Trial of Annihilation & it would have to be triggered by an incredible act of shame e.g the Coyote Blood Scandal or the Wolverine Annihilation.

Yvraith, on 10 May 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

In all the times I have played it, I have never got that ending....
I'm going to have to go back & play through it again until I do....

You have to play as Steiner supporter.

Hakiyah, on 10 May 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

if memory serves, in the wolf clan you have to have a sponsor from one of the bloodname houses to compete for their name after it opens up (i.e. they die). That just depends entirely on the individual bloodnamed people. Some won't care as long you show yourself to be a capable warrior, and others are incredibly prejudiced about such things.

Lethal Heritage is the only book I've read that deals with this in detail. Phelan Wolf was sponsored by Cyrilla Ward to fight for her bloodname. But her endorsement only allowed him to compete, it didn't guarantee him anything.

Hawkeye 72, on 10 May 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

To add to Hakiyah, it would also depend on the Clan as well. The aformentioned warrior would have better luck in a Warden Clan, and even then they might have to fight a trial of refusal if a certain officer was irked by the move.

Bloodname (the second book in the Jade Phoenix Trilogy) also deals with the Trial of Bloodright, as the name suggests.

Also to obtain a Bloodname, you must be of the lineage or in clan terms possess a Bloodright. A Pryde cannot sponsor someone with a Bekker Bloodright for example.

If you require more info on the subject, you may refer to this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...-bloodnames-101

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 14 May 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[Dihm]

This lead me to an interesting thought. This will be a pure hypothetical because I'm 99.9% certain nothing like this ever happened.

What if a Clansman was captured by the IS/declared dead by their Clan. That person's bloodline would then be up for grabs, even though the person was still alive. What would occur should the Blood lineage move on to a new person, and then later it was found that the original holder was still alive?

Edited by Dihm, 14 May 2012 - 05:44 AM.

[Decision Paradox]

Dihm, on 14 May 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

This lead me to an interesting thought. This will be a pure hypothetical because I'm 99.9% certain nothing like this ever happened.

What if a Clansman was captured by the IS/declared dead by their Clan. That person's bloodline would then be up for grabs, even though the person was still alive. What would occur should the Blood lineage move on to a new person, and then later it was found that the original holder was still alive?

I don't think you can actually "lose" a bloodname.There are 2 probable outcomes for this situation. Either you have a temporary additional bloodname holder, whose lineage can not be claimed when he dies.
Or more in the spirit of the clans the two holders contest the right for the lineage in a trial of combat.

[Thorn Hallis]

Decision Paradox, on 14 May 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

I don't think you can actually "lose" a bloodname.

If the warrior in question is the "victim" of a Trial of Abjuration, he or she also loses his bloodname.

[Stormwolf]

Dihm, on 14 May 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

This lead me to an interesting thought. This will be a pure hypothetical because I'm 99.9% certain nothing like this ever happened.

What if a Clansman was captured by the IS/declared dead by their Clan. That person's bloodline would then be up for grabs, even though the person was still alive. What would occur should the Blood lineage move on to a new person, and then later it was found that the original holder was still alive?

I think that the Khan and the Clan council would consult with the bloodhouse in question.
The likely outcome would be there are temporarily 26 holders. There would be no new bloodright trials until the number falls below 25.

[Evgeny Bear]

well for a digital charakter it would be hard to prove any lineage to a family or genes. So maybe piraniah let the Claners fight for bloodnames in official Tournament, making a GM the Oathmaster and the Winner will get a Bloodname.
Every month or 2 a tournament will get held and the bloodnames have to be fight over again, and the champions of the last ones will fight in the Finals. Making it a real prize to get a hold of such a Name and will be asure that only a skilled Champion has a Bloodname (and be SaKahn?^^)

I mean it would be boring if mwo handles the bloodnames as "something we do not controll" and every private "clan/corp" will handle it for themself to give names, in the end we have 40 Aidan Prydes and so on.

Edited by Andar89, 14 May 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Dihm, on 14 May 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

This lead me to an interesting thought. This will be a pure hypothetical because I'm 99.9% certain nothing like this ever happened.

What if a Clansman was captured by the IS/declared dead by their Clan. That person's bloodline would then be up for grabs, even though the person was still alive. What would occur should the Blood lineage move on to a new person, and then later it was found that the original holder was still alive?

Damn good question. Probably why it never happened in the books.

Decision Paradox, on 14 May 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

I don't think you can actually "lose" a bloodname.There are 2 probable outcomes for this situation. Either you have a temporary additional bloodname holder, whose lineage can not be claimed when he dies.

Or more in the spirit of the clans the two holders contest the right for the lineage in a trial of combat.

Once you die, your Bloodname becomes available. Earning a Bloodname is quite a feat. Once you have done so, I do not think anyone can force you to fight for it again, so I do not think they would do that. Both warriors would have fought honorably & won the day for their respective Trials.

Thorn Hallis, on 14 May 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

If the warrior in question is the "victim" of a Trial of Abjuration, he or she also loses his Bloodname.

True but that is not necessarily the case. It is just a warrior who the Clan thinks is dead.

Stormwolf, on 14 May 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

I think that the Khan and the Clan council would consult with the bloodhouse in question.
The likely outcome would be there are temporarily 26 holders. There would be no new bloodright trials until the number falls below 25.

The thing is Trials of Propogation have been held before but the Bloodcount has never exceeded 25. I think you are right, though. A special case may have to be made. The ilKhan, Khan of that Clan & the Bloodhouse in question would have to come to some sort of arrangement.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 14 May 2012 - 01:09 PM.

[Evgeny Bear]

Jaroth Winson, on 14 May 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Once you die, your Bloodname becomes available. Earning a Bloodname is quite a feat. Once you have done so, I do not think anyone can force you to fight for it again, so I do not think they would do that. Both warriors would have fought honorably & won the day for their respective Trials.

1. There is no such thing as death in a videogame, and I think you don't want to wait 60 years to wait to fight for a name
2. Aswell as it limits the nameholders, and scince everyone wants to fight for one it is lame for a player.
3. also players can earn a name, and don't enter the game again anymore, so you have dead places.

only solutions:
- No Bloodnames
- players organize it themselve, makes it unfair so or so in the end
- make bloodnames available but for a limited time. (but still only 25 names and you have to constantly fight for one of them in a time shedule, so 1 name available and the other 24 are save for now)
making it a constant competition, and that sounds very Clan like

[Jaroth Corbett]

I do not think the person that asked the question was speaking from a game POV, but a lore one.

Also if we are playing as Clan, then we will want the full Clan experience which means Bloodnames so I have a different view to yours. People who love the lore of the Clans will appreciate & accept all the pros & cons of that lifestyle.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 14 May 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Evgeny Bear]

I was realizing it, but I was making out some thoughts about it, and did not want to create another thread.

Yes but everyone would think he deserves a Bloodname, creating trouble. A tournament is good for Clan Lifestyle and also will seperate the wheat from the chaff quiaff? There will always be a better sibko in the next tournament, getting their honor out of the dead hands from the old ones.

:humorous addition: Maybe you are afraid of loosing the right to a younger warrior with better reflexes^^

Edited by Andar89, 14 May 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Well all Clan warriors are entitled to a Bloodname. The fact that there are 25 Bloodrights for each name means there will be a LOT of Bloodnames to go around. I address that topic here:

http://mwomercs.com/...6241#entry96241

[Vora MacEvedy]

There is another way... Find someone with some distant relation to a Wolverine Not Named Bloodnamed warrior and wipe out their line. You get to create your own Bloodhouse.

See Birthright for details...

[Jaroth Corbett]

Finding a Hallis in the IS is next to impossible but yeah you can do that also.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 01 June 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[Vora MacEvedy]

...

Methinks you are missing the obvious.

My last name is...?