25 replies to this topic

[HeroicTofu]

Well, I'm finally on the road to upgrading my computer after many delays. The first of many upgrades is a new AMD Radeon HD 6870. Absolutely speedy compared to my AMD Radeon HD 5670. I also purchased a new HP LA2205wg 22" Inch Widescreen monitor that looks absolutely amazing. For double fun, I took two of my older 19 inch Vison monitors and set up an extended desktop for multitasking's sake. It's not Eyefinity in the sense of running a game on three monitors, but it's still a fun setup.



The three monitor setup can be seen on my Google+ page: https://plus.google....sts/9E6W6W3ig7n.

For my next step, I'll ask the opinions of you all (Vulpesveritas probably has a good idea). I'm considering either getting a Phenom II X4 975 or an FX-4170. Now, at this time, I have no plans on upgrading to Windows 8 upon it's arrival. So the mythical 10% increase in performance on Windows 8 as far as the Bulldozer line of processors is concerned is irrelevant to me. However, both processors would be an improvement over my current Athlon II X4 635, as it lacks L3 Cache and is clocked at a meager 2.9ghz (currently OC'd to 3.1).

I use a Silverstone FT-02 case and have superior cooling for my components, so I believe I can get away with a stock cooler for the processor, however what coolers would you recommend for whatever processor you recommend?

I will say I am leaning towards the Phenom II due to it's proven track record, but I'm open to suggestions!

[Hellgardia]

The Athlon II X4 635 has good overclocking potential so maybe it would be better to get a good air cooler and OC that CPU instead of buying a new one (at least if you're thinking about buying the Phenom II X4 975 or the FX-4170).
Regarding the lack of cache, have you tried unlocking it in the BIOS? Some Athlon II X4 are based on the Deneb core which have locked L3 Cache.


For air coolers you could go with a Thermalright HR-02 Macho which goes for around 39€ here in Portugal (probably around the same values there).

One last thing. Be sure to check your PSU to see if it has enough quality to run your build.

Cheers

[Oderint dum Metuant]

I personally would buy an AM3+ board and the 975.

I believe Vulp stated that the next gen AMD chips will still use the AM3+ socket so you would then have upgrade path from the 975 to something that hopefully will be more successful than bulldozer.

[HeroicTofu]

Was hoping to avoid buying a new motherboard, but I'll look into unlocking the L3 Cache if that's a possibility! That'd be awesome! And as far as my PSU goes, I'm currently using a Rosewill 1000W 80Plus Bronze PSU.

For the entire breakdown (which I should have done to begin with, I'm tired. Forgive me.):
CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 635 (Stock Cooler)
Mainboard: MSI 890FXA-GD70
PSU: Rosewill BRONZE Series RBR1000-M 1000W
Memory: 8GB G.Skill 1600
HDD: 640GB SATA III Western Digital Caviar Black (No SSD at this time)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 6870 1GB
Case: Silverstone FT-02 (I soooo love this thing. It's a beast!)
Mouse: Logitech G500
Keyboard: Microsoft Sidewinder X4

Assuming I can unlock L3 Cache, CPU no longer becomes an issue, just overclocking. I think that would lead to an SSD or an additional 6870 in Crossfire as the next upgrade, but again, I'm open to suggestions.

Update: After researching my particular version of the Athlon II X4 (Propus), it would appear that the L3 Cache has been physically cut out of this processor. So, CPU upgrade still stands if you all deem it reasonable.

Edited by HeroicTofu, 11 May 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[Barbaric Soul]

I recommend this CPU- http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103995

It a thuban(6 core phenom II) with two core locked in the bios. Your 890 chipset motherboard should have the ability to unlock those extra cores. Unlocking those cores will turn the 960T into a 1075T six core phenom II.

Heatsink wise, I've been really happy with the performance of my Corsair H60 on my 2600k. It can handle my 2600k at speeds of up to 4.5ghz and beyond(depending on if AC is on or not) and keep my 2600k under 75'c under full load crunching for days on end. Only thing I have done to my H60 is add a second fan for a push/pull config. I can explain that more if need be. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835181015



OT- I see you have a GD70 motherboard. What do you think about it? I'm currently running a Z68A-GD80(gen3) motherboard myself and have been quite pleased with it. Before this board, I never had really been a MSI fan, but this board is changing that rather quickly.

Edited by Barbaric Soul, 11 May 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[Hellgardia]

Well if you have a Propus then the PII X4 965 BE or the PII 960T are the best choices

Cheers

PS: I love that case

[HeroicTofu]

Barbaric Soul, on 11 May 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

I recommend this CPU- http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103995

It a thuban(6 core phenom II) with two core locked in the bios. Your 890 chipset motherboard should have the ability to unlock those extra cores. Unlocking those cores will turn the 960T into a 1075T six core phenom II.

Heatsink wise, I've been really happy with the performance of my Corsair H60 on my 2600k. It can handle my 2600k at speeds of up to 4.5ghz and beyond(depending on if AC is on or not) and keep my 2600k under 75'c under full load crunching for days on end. Only thing I have done to my H60 is add a second fan for a push/pull config. I can explain that more if need be. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835181015



OT- I see you have a GD70 motherboard. What do you think about it? I'm currently running a Z68A-GD80(gen3) motherboard myself and have been quite pleased with it. Before this board, I never had really been a MSI fan, but this board is changing that rather quickly.

I love my GD70. It wasn't my first choice of motherboard, I actually originally had an ASUS Crosshair IV. Which -was- awesome looking. However, apparently, QA forget to check the northbridge heatsinks and well, I had to RMA mine (It was possible for me to have replaced the screws, but by doing so, I would void the warranty.). In any case, I looking up the MSI board and I could not be happier. It's truly awesome and has served me well.

Also, I've decided to hold off on processor for the moment in a random impulse buy to implement an SSD into my build. A Crucial M4 128GB as a boot drive and essential apps.

[Vulpesveritas]

HeroicTofu, on 11 May 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

Was hoping to avoid buying a new motherboard, but I'll look into unlocking the L3 Cache if that's a possibility! That'd be awesome! And as far as my PSU goes, I'm currently using a Rosewill 1000W 80Plus Bronze PSU.

For the entire breakdown (which I should have done to begin with, I'm tired. Forgive me.):
CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 635 (Stock Cooler)
Mainboard: MSI 890FXA-GD70
PSU: Rosewill BRONZE Series RBR1000-M 1000W
Memory: 8GB G.Skill 1600
HDD: 640GB SATA III Western Digital Caviar Black (No SSD at this time)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 6870 1GB
Case: Silverstone FT-02 (I soooo love this thing. It's a beast!)
Mouse: Logitech G500
Keyboard: Microsoft Sidewinder X4

Assuming I can unlock L3 Cache, CPU no longer becomes an issue, just overclocking. I think that would lead to an SSD or an additional 6870 in Crossfire as the next upgrade, but again, I'm open to suggestions.

Update: After researching my particular version of the Athlon II X4 (Propus), it would appear that the L3 Cache has been physically cut out of this processor. So, CPU upgrade still stands if you all deem it reasonable.

A 1KW PSU is complete overkill... you won't use anywhere near that, even overclocking bulldozer. I'd skip the Xfire IMO, it's better to have a single fast card than microstutter in my opinion. I would also recommend yes, upgrade to AM3+. Bulldozer works on some AM3 boards, but it doesn't use all the AM3+ pins. Later CPUs most likely will, and desktop Piledriver cores (which are looking to completely wipe the floor with old AMD CPU's if the Trinity CPU cores are anything to base on via AMD's benchmarks. We'll see real results later this month. As fast as Llano clock-for-clock , which is faster than Phenom II despite lacking L3 Cache, and there will be an octocore that comes 125w at 4.2ghz on all cores.) So getting the mobo now and upgrading the CPU later may be your best option there.
What I'd recommend;
Mobo: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157266 990FX, great reviews, build to last, (and AsRock is now the world's 3rd largest motherboard manufacturer, and isn't made by Foxconn like most boards - they're Pegatron's house brand. [no longer Asus owned.])
PSU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182264 Rosewill, 80+ gold, and modular. Otherwise you can get this for much less with Seasonic internals if you don't need modular: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817703027
GPU: 79xx series, 7870 (if you might do any GPGPU, bitcoin mining, or will fold your PC in order to contribute to medical research/SETI/etc) or Nvidia GTX 670 (if all you're doing is gaming.)

[HeroicTofu]

Vulpesveritas, on 11 May 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

A 1KW PSU is complete overkill... you won't use anywhere near that, even overclocking bulldozer. I'd skip the Xfire IMO, it's better to have a single fast card than microstutter in my opinion. I would also recommend yes, upgrade to AM3+. Bulldozer works on some AM3 boards, but it doesn't use all the AM3+ pins. Later CPUs most likely will, and desktop Piledriver cores (which are looking to completely wipe the floor with old AMD CPU's if the Trinity CPU cores are anything to base on via AMD's benchmarks. We'll see real results later this month. As fast as Llano clock-for-clock , which is faster than Phenom II despite lacking L3 Cache, and there will be an octocore that comes 125w at 4.2ghz on all cores.) So getting the mobo now and upgrading the CPU later may be your best option there.
What I'd recommend;
Mobo: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157266 990FX, great reviews, build to last, (and AsRock is now the world's 3rd largest motherboard manufacturer, and isn't made by Foxconn like most boards - they're Pegatron's house brand. [no longer Asus owned.])
PSU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182264 Rosewill, 80+ gold, and modular. Otherwise you can get this for much less with Seasonic internals if you don't need modular: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817703027
GPU: 79xx series, 7870 (if you might do any GPGPU, bitcoin mining, or will fold your PC in order to contribute to medical research/SETI/etc) or Nvidia GTX 670 (if all you're doing is gaming.)

Considering I already have the PSU (The parts I listed are things I already own), I will stick with it. I realize it was overkill for what I'd be doing/using, however, it was a Black Friday sale item and well, I got the thing for $75 at the time. Now, I've heard about the microstuttering issue, I wonder if, down the road, software updates will fix that.

I'm not entirely against getting a new motherboard, but I'd like to get as much as I can out of this board.

In any case, I've spent some money on an SSD (which will help certain apps), and the 6870 so far does Crysis 1 on Very High Settings without lag, as well as Deus Ex Human Evolution. Max settings, no lag. It's pretty sweet.

[Vulpesveritas]

HeroicTofu, on 11 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Considering I already have the PSU (The parts I listed are things I already own), I will stick with it. I realize it was overkill for what I'd be doing/using, however, it was a Black Friday sale item and well, I got the thing for $75 at the time. Now, I've heard about the microstuttering issue, I wonder if, down the road, software updates will fix that.

I'm not entirely against getting a new motherboard, but I'd like to get as much as I can out of this board.

In any case, I've spent some money on an SSD (which will help certain apps), and the 6870 so far does Crysis 1 on Very High Settings without lag, as well as Deus Ex Human Evolution. Max settings, no lag. It's pretty sweet.

Microstuttering has been around since multi-GPU setups started. It's nothing new, and it's unlikely to go away anytime soon unless they figure out a way to quantum entangle your GPUs to work perfectly in sync between each other and have no bandwidth loss on the Xfire/SLI bridge. Though having a third and/or fourth GPU tends to make microstutter much less noticeable by "filing in" frames. apparently at least by what I've read. Never gone multi-GPU myself, though Catamont can tell you enough about the microstutter. And it's good enough to play anything right now with that one 6870. You may want to wait and save up for a big boy next go-around, it's "expected" that the Radeon HD 8970 will have a 20-25% improvement in performance and be just as good for GPGPU( /better), so that's a thought.
But yeah, with Piledriver just a few months away, and how much faster that it will be vs current AMD CPUs, I'd say upgrade your mobo now and upgrade your CPU this fall when Piledriver FX chips are out. It's going to be your best price/performance option. Plus, steamroller is expected in a year (or two) which is piledriver on 22nm. so you have a future CPU upgrade as well.

[Suicidal Idiot]

I'm running a similar setup. I recommend doing a bit of looking around about:
moving your users directory to another hard drive
With win7 even though you can move your special directories (download, documents, music, etc.) individually, you are far better off moving your entire user's directory.

That way, WHEN (not if) your system drive dies or gets fubar'd you haven't lost much of anything except app installs. Which you probably want to update by then anyway.

I know. I moved to SSD + 2 x 2TB HDDs two weeks before a power surge on boot killed my boot files. Unable to repair, I had to reinstall. All of my downloads, music and personal stuff survived unscathed.

Also, a co-worker with a thinkpad just lost her SSD. kaput. gone. "It's dead Jim". She had no backups, and has to rebuild 2 month of work. SyncToy and/or Karen's Replicator are your friends.

Also, your board has USB3. USB3 Seagate 1.5 TB drives sell at Costco for about $150. For me, USB3 has been running about 10x as fast in my real world weekly .75 TB backups.

[Suicidal Idiot]

I also have a hugely overspecced power supply, courtesy of NewEgg Shell Shocker:

1: no worry about adding another drive or two for whatever.
2: better: Always idling along silently, the PS fan never cranks up to high.
3: The PS won't die from overstress.

[HeroicTofu]

Vulpesveritas, on 11 May 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Microstuttering has been around since multi-GPU setups started. It's nothing new, and it's unlikely to go away anytime soon unless they figure out a way to quantum entangle your GPUs to work perfectly in sync between each other and have no bandwidth loss on the Xfire/SLI bridge. Though having a third and/or fourth GPU tends to make microstutter much less noticeable by "filing in" frames. apparently at least by what I've read. Never gone multi-GPU myself, though Catamont can tell you enough about the microstutter. And it's good enough to play anything right now with that one 6870. You may want to wait and save up for a big boy next go-around, it's "expected" that the Radeon HD 8970 will have a 20-25% improvement in performance and be just as good for GPGPU( /better), so that's a thought.
But yeah, with Piledriver just a few months away, and how much faster that it will be vs current AMD CPUs, I'd say upgrade your mobo now and upgrade your CPU this fall when Piledriver FX chips are out. It's going to be your best price/performance option. Plus, steamroller is expected in a year (or two) which is piledriver on 22nm. so you have a future CPU upgrade as well.

Depending on if Piledriver lives up to the hype, I will totally consider getting a new motherboard. I may even wait to see if they have an entirely new set of motherboards to go along with Piledriver. But I'm leery after the hype of Bulldozer and how it was the computer equivalent to the second coming of Christ. I'll wait and see for now, maybe just stick with my Athlon and just get a better cooler for it. I've looked at the H60 that Barbaric Soul mentioned and the Thermalright HR-02 Macho that Aniquilator6 mentioned, any other recommendations as far as that goes?

H60 is pretty awesome and relatively inexpensive as a water cooling solution and that HR-02 Macho just looks like a beast. I'd have to make sure it fits in the case! Rofl.

[Barbaric Soul]

another heatsink to look at is the CM Hyper heatsinks. Very good performance and very inexpensive.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835103099

[HeroicTofu]

Barbaric Soul, on 12 May 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

another heatsink to look at is the CM Hyper heatsinks. Very good performance and very inexpensive.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835103099

Wow... That's... wow. I swear, I was -just- looking at that one on Newegg, decided to refresh this page to see if anyone posted a recommendation, and lo' and behold. Awesome.

[Barbaric Soul]

[Vulpesveritas]

The TPC 812 is awesome for about the price of that H60. Air cooler on 1 fan (no leaks and can get another fan) for $70, is the same size as a Hyper 212, and performs within 2 degrees C within the Corsair H100 on average therabouts by what reviews I've read, is a great option.

[Barbaric Soul]

Vulpesveritas, on 12 May 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

The TPC 812 is awesome for about the price of that H60. Air cooler on 1 fan (no leaks and can get another fan) for $70, is the same size as a Hyper 212, and performs within 2 degrees C within the Corsair H100 on average therabouts by what reviews I've read, is a great option.

The TPC 812, from what I have read, does not compar to the H100 like Vulpes is saying. Here's one example where the H100 results are 10'C cooler than the TPC 812.



source- http://www.legitrevi...article/1913/1/

I personally would not spend $70 for air cooling.

Edited by Barbaric Soul, 13 May 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[HeroicTofu]

After some research and determining how much I want to spend on a CPU cooler, also after determining height restrictions, etc, I'm gonna go with Barbaric Soul's recommendation of the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO. For the price, height, etc, it performs excessively well. Thank you all

[Vulpesveritas]

Barbaric Soul, on 13 May 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

The TPC 812, from what I have read, does not compar to the H100 like Vulpes is saying. Here's one example where the H100 results are 10'C cooler than the TPC 812.



source- http://www.legitrevi...article/1913/1/

I personally would not spend $70 for air cooling.

http://www.frostytec...eid=2654&page=4
http://www.frostytec...eid=2654&page=5
It really depends on the case and environment being used. Besides, air cooling is safer, you NEVER need to worry about it running out of coolent (yes, even those closed loop systems will die eventually. An air cooler you just need to replace the fan, you have to replace a complete water cooling system, and coolermaster, zalman, etc are known for adding compatibility brackets for newer systems/mobos. Plus AMD seems to be a constant.)