20 replies to this topic

[RagnarocKer]

Granted, I've played only enough battles so as I can count them on two hands, perhaps in time I could adapt. But relative to the old 'Mech series, your user interface is relatively confusing. Your joystick configuration protocols is laughable, e.g to look up I have to push the stick forward, which traditionally to my mind is to look down. No way that I can see to invert that. Can't even operate the joystick throttle, among other things. Which leaves me to work the mouse and keyboard. Never, ever had to do that in the Mechwarrior franchise before. That's where I get confused as to where my torso is twisted, in relation to my legs.

Your Mechlab is also more confusing than traditional titles. Personally, I'd ask for my Founders money back. Maybe I'll continue playing World of Tanks a while longer and hope you guys catch up someday.

[orion0117]

From Paul Inouye's post: You can edit your config file to reverse the pitch(looking up and down with joystick.) See below on how to change pitch. I was about to do the same as you and shelve this game until I ran across the post on how to fix this issue with the joystick.

Agree with you on the torso centering and was here to bring that up. Hitting C for torso center should center legs to crosshairs where you're looking not swing your crosshairs away from your targets to line cockpit up with legs.

Agree with you that the mechlab has a learning curve. I probably looked around for two hours before it started to make sense and I felt like I was getting how to set up my mech. Once you figure it out it's very sensible. IF there was a user manual it would make all the difference but the devs haven't got that far!

I play WOT too and it has come along way in the last 18 months I've been playing. I am also a programmer and understand how much work goes into a game like these. I have hope and faith in the MWO development staff that MechWarrior will, in time, be just as good as WOT. Better, because 100 foot tall Mechs weighing little more than an M1 Abrams is just a start into how advanced the tech in these machines is.

cl_joystick_invert_pitch - When this is set to 1, you will look up when you pull BACK on the joystick. You will look down if you press FORWARD on the joystick. This is how airplanes work and how you should leave it unless you're some sort of demon spawn that does it backwards. If you are demon spawn, then set the value to 0 if you want to look the wrong direction when pressing forward or back on the joystick.

If you are having problems setting up your joystick, add the following to your USER.CFG file:


cl_joystick_gain = 8
cl_joystick_sensitivity = 0.75
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
cl_joystick_invert_pitch = 1
cl_joystick_invert_yaw = 0
cl_joystick_invert_turn = 0
cl_joystick_deadzone = 0.1

Edited by orion0117, 29 November 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[PapaKilo]

Just so you know, joystick use isn't recommended due to having two reticles to aim -- one for arms and one for torso. The granularity of control just isn't the same with joystick as it is with a keyboard/mouse setup. Of course, they will eventually refine it, but it will forever be playing catch-up to the level of control you get automatically with a keyboard and mouse.

[Jadel Blade]

As they said the joystick setup is somewhat manual. Although its pretty easy to do. Its not easy to play with joystick though so don't bother.

try mouse throttle, that's a really nice mix IMO.

Its not confusing that way. Mouse operates logically.

Mech lab is pretty average but its simple once you use it for a while.

[Dagger906]

Not just joystick, but just about everything, including mech lab, is a throwback.

They could have ported MW4, but instead ported pre-MW2, with some dysfunctional parts added.

[RagnarocKer]

Well I suppose if there was a third person perspective, I wouldn't get as confused as to where my legs are walking. WOT allows one to zoom right inside the tank to all the way out to third person consistantly. Having a small line on a small sceen off set from where you're trying to shoot is confounding.

Thank you Orion, I'll try that joystick manuver you've menttion. Though as the other mentioned the joystick control just ain't up to snuff as yet. Really though, I am a traditionalists when it comes to Mechwarrior, and using mouse and keyboard in this particular case is irksome.

I'm still not likely to play this game or activate my Founder's premium until they address these issues.

[pjnt]

Like all are saying. Ditch the stick and use mouse/keyboard. It works really well. Also, give it some more games to get a better feel. My first 10 games were less than memorable, too.

[Noth]

For your issue of being confused which way your torso and legs are pointing, there are two indicators on your HUD. One of the map, and the other near the top on the compass.

[RagnarocKer]

Like I said, Noth, neither are which are in your line of sight. Your 'Mech is walking but you have tunnel vision while aiming at the enemy. Then of a sudden your mech walks behind an obstacle. You have to look down to figure out your alignment. True, though is could be a learned skill over time, it's frustrating and not intuitive. If the developers want to grab a large market share, they should tailor the UI to accomdate an intuitive feel. Particularly an old francise like this one that's what? Twenty years old? Hell, I've played this title since it was a board game. Played the very first PC shooter, (god that got boring after awhile). The joystick configuration should have been their first consideration. Really, it's like "duh".

[Noth]

RagnarocKer, on 29 November 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Like I said, Noth, neither are which are in your line of sight. Your 'Mech is walking but you have tunnel vision while aiming at the enemy. Then of a sudden your mech walks behind an obstacle. You have to look down to figure out your alignment. True, though is could be a learned skill over time, it's frustrating and not intuitive. If the developers want to grab a large market share, they should tailor the UI to accomdate an intuitive feel. Particularly an old francise like this one that's what? Twenty years old? Hell, I've played this title since it was a board game. Played the very first PC shooter, (god that got boring after awhile). The joystick configuration should have been their first consideration. Really, it's like "duh".

Don't get tunnel vision then. Learn to use your peripheral vision. Tunnel vision leads to death in this game. THe display is very intuitive. You just have to learn it it.

They didn't focus on the joystick because joysticks are not all that common now. Most computer players don't even own one these days. THus they focused on a control scheme that would benefit the most players. This is a rebirth of the franchise on the pc platform and thus differences are going to be quite common.

[Jadel Blade]

RagnarocKer, on 29 November 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Like I said, Noth, neither are which are in your line of sight. Your 'Mech is walking but you have tunnel vision while aiming at the enemy. Then of a sudden your mech walks behind an obstacle. You have to look down to figure out your alignment. True, though is could be a learned skill over time, it's frustrating and not intuitive. If the developers want to grab a large market share, they should tailor the UI to accomdate an intuitive feel. Particularly an old francise like this one that's what? Twenty years old? Hell, I've played this title since it was a board game. Played the very first PC shooter, (god that got boring after awhile). The joystick configuration should have been their first consideration. Really, it's like "duh".

I find it very intuitive and not confusing at all. It takes a while to get good at it but its not hard to use right from the start. I dont think I have ever looked at the alignment indicator thing while playing. The only way its not immediately apparent which way you are twisted is if you are stationary and even then its not super hard.

I hate that this weird inability of people and their refusal to put in a few hours to get better at something means that they are going to ruin the game by putting 3rd person mode in.

Also with a small amount of effort you can get your joystick set up as well as you ever will. The fact that their isnt a good interface for it means nothing. Its never going to be any better to use it in game, just easier to set up.

This is exactly how I feel about what you are saying.

Mech control ... "Really, it's like "duh"
Joystick setup ... "Really, it's like "duh"

[RagnarocKer]

I'll take your point on joystick availability Noth, they're not as common as they used to be. As for Jadel's comment on joystick setup, well for one having the pitch switched with no reference within the game as to how to reverse it back to normal isn't good. Back in the day there were instruction manuals that came with packaged games. To have to comb through forums in order to correct deficiencies is kind of a crap shoot. A definate cop out. So, joystick set up isn't , "like duh", it's frustrating when you can't play an old title like you used too.

Having just a thin grey line representing your legs direction below your line of sight isn't very intuitive. The Mechwarrior franchise always had both a first, and third person perspective, as does World of Tanks. That's what's problably turning me off as well. In WOT, once you taken you finger off of the "W" key, the tank comes to a halt. Here, the Mech keeps walking. So it may be that I'm not adapting as I used to when I was younger. There should be more customization available for the various playing styles, and it should be more readily apparent and easier to find.

[DivineEvil]

Forget the joystick. Joystick is for planes or spaceships, not for mechs.

There's two near-center indicators of your relative torso direction. One is for twist, on the Compass bar (two arrows, one pointing for Legs, one for Torso), one on both sides from the reticles (bright yellow bars) showing your pitch offset. If you can't see neither, then your tunnel vision is far above normal and you need to visit a doctor.

There's a video on a site, easily accessable from both the patcher and client. If you can't see those either, then you're mentally broken to start with.

Mech Lab is easy, if you have some intelligence. It will be updated, but forfeiting the game for that is ridiculous. And no, your Founders funds will not be returned, like it or not. Beta is Open, Time is Up.

Edited by DivineEvil, 30 November 2012 - 02:01 AM.

[Jadel Blade]

The thing is the features you want would completely ruin the game for me.

The auto stop thing is terrible but as an option I dont care if they add it. Will just make you easier to kill.

3rd person actually effects me however I really really dont want it in a playable fashion. As a cosmetic thing to look at my mech would be nice but no more.

Im not arguing that the joystick setup is good for a released product, it is pretty messy, but its also not very hard to do if you want to go that way. Its certainly not a required feature though, stick users are a huge minority. It should be better though I agree.

The thin grey line ... which I dont know what you are talking about is not the best way to tell which way your legs are going. The best way to tell that is by seeing which direction you move.

[RagnarocKer]

That's another thing, seems I remember a 'Mech's torso didn't always twist 360 degrees. By the time I've figured which way I'm going, I'm looking out the backside of my ever flailing legs. Also if I recall the hud used to be in your line of sight in MW 4. A circle with a firing arc was superimposed there.

Could it be that my problem with these widely placed indicators are exacerbated by my 58 inch screen? Then again, that's what gives me my 66% accuracy rate in WoT. For that matter I'd rather have the tunnel vision.

[RagnarocKer]

Oh and by the way Divine, I can tell your a young'un. You've never piloted a 'Mech until you've had the feel of a Force feedback stick in your hand. I feel sorry for you.

[Jadel Blade]

Not one of the MWO mechs torse twists 360 degrees so you dont have to worry about that.

The HUD is always in line of sight with reticule superimposed so .. good again.

......

Bragging about being good at WoT and calling people young'un makes you sound silly.

Force feedback on mech games was and is terrible. In fact the only thing worse than a joystick for MW is a joystick with force feedback.

Dont get me wrong , its fun to play with the joystick in a way. Feels quite cool. But its way inferior to mouse. Thats just an opinion though. If you want to play with joystick do it. Theres nothing stopping you apart from the fact you will be dead alot quicker.

[DivineEvil]

RagnarocKer, on 30 November 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

Oh and by the way Divine, I can tell your a young'un. You've never piloted a 'Mech until you've had the feel of a Force feedback stick in your hand. I feel sorry for you.

I'm 25, birthday November 3th 1987.

Same goes for you. If you need a force feedbac to feel the game, I feel sorry for you. Your perception is very limited.

And yeah, I have more accuracy in WOT than you, just because I'm playing German tanks, that has the most accurate cannons among the nations. With 18inch notebook monitor. Your half-of-wall display doesn't make any difference. Besides, that's the actual reasoning for your tunnel vision - with such huge monitor you can barely have enough peripherical vision for that amount of space. I can see my entire display without even moving my eyes and aim into enemies without looking at them directly if needed.

And yeah, I'm using Microsoft optical mouse with three buttons for

And yeah, I've required about 6 hours of gameplay in order to know and use every detail of current UI and use Mech Lab at will, by analytic approach. It's weird you cannot do that. I feel sorry for that as well.

[RagnarocKer]

You mean to tell me, you've played Mechwarrior Vengeance/Mercenaries without a Forcefeedback Stick? No wonder you guys are so off the wall. Tell you guys what, if this title doesn't clean up it's act, within six months I'm definately gonna shelve this sucker. It's like asking Tom Paris to fly his Delta Flyer without his retro controls. Really, without force feed back this game is just too sterile for me.

In the meantime, I'll go dig up those old titles. Be nice to see them up on the big screen. Really, you guys missed out on alot, pity...

[Oy of MidWorld]

PapaKilo, on 29 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Just so you know, joystick use isn't recommended due to having two reticles to aim -- one for arms and one for torso. The granularity of control just isn't the same with joystick as it is with a keyboard/mouse setup. Of course, they will eventually refine it, but it will forever be playing catch-up to the level of control you get automatically with a keyboard and mouse.

No. It's simply a question of training. Joystick implementation in MWO sucks, but if you emulate the mouse with a good enough stick, it works. I use a stick and i am pretty decent with it (after many hours of painful training, allright), but it just feels a lot better.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 02 December 2012 - 08:56 AM.