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[Sug] Impact Damage, Blocking & Knockdown - Making Cover & Variable Speed More Tactical


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Poll: [Sug] Impact Damage, Blocking & Knockdown - Making Cover & Variable Speed More Tactical (22 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you prefer to be in MWO

  1. Knock Down (18 votes [43.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 43.90%

  2. Impact Damage (13 votes [31.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.71%

  3. Mech Blocking (10 votes [24.39%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.39%

  4. None (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 Asmudius Heng

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

I think we nearly all agree that the removal of knockdown has caused a lot of balance issues. All mechs can move through others without any real issue and this benefits faster, lighter mechs more - especially against bigger slower ones. This is not because of the amazing skills of the light pilot but by abusing a feature which is not intended. I will leave net code out of this discussion - lets assume net code is fixed as well which is the long term goal.

So what happens when knockdown is back in? Lights suddenly cannot run through enemy or friendly mechs at stupid speeds without going face first down or something equivalent. This encourages lights to have a more variable speed, slowing down a little in some areas, speeding up when the coast is clear, or staying at further range since they cannot escape THROUGH an assault mechs legs. This sill be good for the game, and i love piloting light mechs, it is a challenge and it will become more challenging which is good.

I would like to extend this a little bit further in fact - not to punish lights but i feel it will add a lot more to the complexity and tactics of the game. I propose that impact damage and blocking be added to the mechanics if possible.

What does this mean?
  • Impact damage should occur when any mech travelling at a high enough speed collides with an object, be it a mech, a building, a cliff face or whatever. This would nto be devestating but enough to make people think twice about it - but not cause any damage at slow speeds.
  • Mech Blocking should mean that mechs cannot move through other mechs. An Atlas in the middle of a narrow street should stop a mech going through it. If the mechs collide they should cause damage to each other (minimal) but if the knockdown does not occur (pehaps by not having high enough sped etc) both mechs should reduce thier speed to 0 and end up at a standstill.

Repercussions - Impact Damage


With these 3 mechanics added all players would need to watch their speed in built up locations. At the moment speed is still king. Even on larger mechs who want to take more weapons, the trade off of speed AND agility (torso twist etc) is hardly worth the extra bang for your buck so to speak (My opinion - but i feel that higher engines often bring better results).


High speed and high agility are amazing to have, but people frequently hit 100% and ram into buildings, slide off them, ram into another spin and re-engage like a deranged pinball game. While you lose your speed when you collide, you can quickly slide off and be running again. Unless people feel they are disengaged from combat an can slow down to line up shots - full speed ahead is often the best way to go.

If you had to really watch where you were moving then in a built up space such as the refinery or the city you would need to be traveling at slower speed to round corners making you a bigger target. A slower mech such as a stock Hunchback which was designed to be a city fighter would be quite at home trundling down streets and keeping in cover using their extra firepower to hit fast mechs forced into a slow mode rather than frenetic bumper car mode.

Assault mechs being torn apart by lights in the open might seek cover in some buildings and wait for light mechs to engage them in their comfort zone (Or the lights could decide no thanks and move off to another target or flank etc)

Forcing fast mechs to consider their speed as well as slower ones makes cover more useful than jst blocking LRMs, it forces a different mod of play that is extremely deadly and more immersive.

This will reduce the power of faster lighter mechs and even faster heavy mechs such as the dragon in tighter spaces.



Repercussions - Mech Blocking

This might be included in the knockdown fix but I wanted to expand on it. Not only are larger mechs more armoured and carry more guns, they occupy a larger space. They should have ability to deny entry to a certain area in a head on engagement. Walking right up to an assault should be damned deadly - it is already - but i see people slipping past them, blasting them with SRMs then moving through the mechs to come up from behind and not having the fear that they perhaps should due to phasing through a mech.

Mechs should not be knocked down if they just clip each other - it gets silly as we have seen. However at a slower speed they should certainly collide, stagger, and be left looking at each other with some extra dents in their armour.

A pair of mechs sanding side by side on a street should stop anyone from running through them but instead need to flank or find a away around. This denial of entry to areas should be a defensive mechs strong suite and it doesn't exist. This would be better than always being knocked down as well, but a lower speed alternative (scaled by weight etc)



Repercussions - Knockdown

We kinda know this one.



---

The point is that the rambo style charging everywhere is detrimental to a tactical game. This is fast paced enough without making people feel that 100% throttle is nearly always best in a fight. Most of these rules would only make a big impact in built up areas also, more open maps would function very much the same.

While i think knockdown has to come back i think all of these mechanics would add an interesting element, especially when we get to having multiple capture points and leaving a big slow mech to defend in a built up area would be more viable forcing engagements on their own terms as a defensive mech should.

Some might think this is overkill, but without skidding rules etc from TT this would be a different way to punish players for not thinking about thier speed. Lights would rule the open ground but slower mechs get a major boost within city areas.

What do you think?

Edited by Asmudius Heng, 03 December 2012 - 11:40 PM.


#2 Asmudius Heng

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:14 PM

bump?

#3 Mordale

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

You should be able to block and knock down a mech if you hit something bigger than you!

#4 Voidsinger

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

I think the thing people forget is that PGI will slant things in the name of 'player enjoyment'.

That means as soon as people enjoy whacking light mechs we go back to the same old collision issues that light mech pilots had in the first place. The heavier mech always knocks down the lighter mech (only occasionally suffering any penalty), the heavier mech gets up first, allowing them to knock down the lighter again. Light mechs tripping on pebbles.
Remember, PGI removed Collision Falls, not because of the major imbalance that was there, but rather so that people could always shoot the light without the teleport issues.

Edited by Voidsinger, 04 December 2012 - 03:18 PM.


#5 DeadlyNerd

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:00 PM

I'm sure all of this is coming in when PGI decides they nerfed fixed mech collision.

#6 jtyotJOTJIPAEFVJ

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

As a person who mostly pilots Jenners and Cicadas, I support this. I've always thought the current movement mechanics are really stupid and wrong. Living Legends actually manages the whole cumbersome warmachine feel a lot better.

#7 Voidsinger

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

My only issue is some users need to deal with High Latency + Server Lag due to geography.

My ping is around 270 from Australia. So, I'm about 1/5th of a second more latent than most US users.

That really shows up with collisions (and all the "Learn to Drive" comments).

The issue is that because server overrides client, I'll get collisions I see as clear.

Users without local proximity servers will have the same issue.

#8 Das Wudone

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:38 PM

i like all ideas but i didnt check mech blocking. reason is it can be abused very easily. i do agree that mechs shouldnt just go through each other but not to a point where u cannot pass through a circle of 3 atlases and just resign the match right there when that happens. maybe make it somewhat like u said colliding but not greatly reduce ur running speed or completely stopping. kinda like u ram them on the side, the enemy mechs torso twists from the impact and on impact ur speed reduced by 1/4 of the max speed u were running. so something like there are 2 atlases, u ram the 1st ur speed from 100 reduced to 75, then u ram the second ur speed is down to 50 with of course damage depending on ur speed.

#9 Asmudius Heng

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostVoidsinger, on 04 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

My only issue is some users need to deal with High Latency + Server Lag due to geography.

My ping is around 270 from Australia. So, I'm about 1/5th of a second more latent than most US users.

That really shows up with collisions (and all the "Learn to Drive" comments).

The issue is that because server overrides client, I'll get collisions I see as clear.

Users without local proximity servers will have the same issue.


I am an Aussie as well and while the lag sucks i dont think it would effect these changes much, object damage at least that is not moving wont matter but trying to squeeze past a mech that might actually be not where it is sure, but hopefully with Aus servers it will be ok. As i stated though i am looking at this as if net code is awesome so not to get distracted by the lag issue - perfect world ideas i guess.

View PostDas Wudone, on 04 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

i like all ideas but i didnt check mech blocking. reason is it can be abused very easily. i do agree that mechs shouldnt just go through each other but not to a point where u cannot pass through a circle of 3 atlases and just resign the match right there when that happens. maybe make it somewhat like u said colliding but not greatly reduce ur running speed or completely stopping. kinda like u ram them on the side, the enemy mechs torso twists from the impact and on impact ur speed reduced by 1/4 of the max speed u were running. so something like there are 2 atlases, u ram the 1st ur speed from 100 reduced to 75, then u ram the second ur speed is down to 50 with of course damage depending on ur speed.


If the speeds are too high it would be a knockdown is my thinking, but if the speeds are lower you would bounce but stay upright. Just want to stop the phasing through a mech without having knockdown apply every time





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