2028 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

I like the ECM. I can't comment much on the ranges though they do seem a bit off.

ECM on the atlas needs to go.

While it is ECM mania right now, seeing ECM as mandatory would be bad. ECM needs to be restricted to mechs like the raven, that are not necessarily best in their class BUT have the ECM...sorta like a healer in an MMO. Otherwise everyone just takes a warrior healer, aka the Atlas DC right now.

BAP needs to be a viable counter, such as allowing the mech WITH BAP to ignore the jamming effect of ECM - bonus for LRM boats and ssrm boats as a counter.

Overall though I love the "low signal" the effect, ECM brings something new and exciting to the table, and i like the implementation,a BAP counter for an individual mech making BAP desireable, and a command console + C3 linkup on an Atlas giving the current ECM grouping effect & perhaps a future BAP effect could also be a workable solution.

completely preventing LRM boats form locking though is not a good idea, the ATLAS DC should be a command console mech, not a raven on steroids.

[Riven Cale]

ECM is a great addition and the implementation is working well, but I think it's a little OP. Restricting the variants/mech able to equip it was definitely a good call, but a little more tuning is needed.

The other electronic warfare elements are under powered vs. ECM. BAP was meh before and pretty useless now. If it worked like a ECM in counter mode only it would be a good rock to ECM's scissors. Artemis shouldn't be negated by ECM. Locks are hard enough now as is. Artemis is not worth is at all now, especially given the ammo cost premium for it.

Right now ECM cripples lock dependent weapons too much. I've seen no mourning for the streak cat, but LRMs are pretty useless now too. I've seen them work with full 8 man units where there's a real recon lance with counter ECM and TAG, but right now 8v8's are using a lot of zerg/cheese tactics because there's no balancing of weight class.

[DodgerH2O]

I love ECM for the most part. It adds layers of complexity and tactics to the game, especially while grouping up. I do have a few gripes though.

I have two issues, really. First, my eyesight is not the best at distinguishing contrast. Those red boxes on the HUD? They allow me to actually see and hit anything at all. Without them I find myself constantly using thermal vision because it's the only way to tell a mech from a bit of scenery. The HUD box and red arrow has been an invaluable tool for me just as far as ordinary play, and without it I feel handicapped. Perhaps this is intentional, but it essentially ruins my ability to do combat when I can't spot the horde of enemies under an ECM cloak only 300m away from me who are facing me and directly firing at me.

Now if my team always had an ECM-carrying mech to counter theirs, I would be bothered much less by the complete loss of my HUD targeting aid. But often in PUG matches the opposing team will have multiple ECM users and mine will have none. I could ensure my team has one by using my COM-2D but I don't always feel like playing a Commando. It's really gotten to the point where I'd gladly spend several million cb on a module just to be able to target enemies again, even if it did not allow missile lock.

Other issue is that I went through all the trouble of unlocking my Raven 4X so I could have ECM and jumpjets, naively thinking that all raven variants should be ECM capable, since that was what I understood the role of the Raven mech to be. Not a real issue as such, just diappointed, as I wanted so badly to have a light mech with jumpjets, BAP, and ECM.

[Straker]

In general, I like ECM, it definitely adds good depth to the gameplay.

However, I do think the effect on limiting the ability to see friendly mechs is a little to strong. The inability to see where your friendlies are makes commanding a drop far too difficult. ECM should be a strong advantage, but now it is kind of an I win button. Right now in an 8 man group, unless you are running at least 3 ECM platforms you are going to have a lot of problems. We fought some groups tonight that had 6-8 ECM platforms.

The inability to call out a Target (Alpha) and have to say "kill the front Atlas in G5" already makes things difficult enough. When you compound that with the impossibility of the drop leader knowing where friendlies are, it makes being on the team with less ECM's almost impossible.

[Jinn]

Hating ECM so far, I'm hearing alot of talk about how it adds complexity to the game, i actually think it detracts heavily from the game. every game i'm played so far has been stomped by an ECM rush. I'd love to see ECM properly by implementing single target ECM so one ECM mech can counter one target, or another option where if two friendly ECM's on disrupt overlap, they cancel each other out. or another alternative, running ECM generates heat so it has to be used wisely rather than constantly. or another option is that ECM works to nullify locks as it does at the moment, but if a person has a line of sight on a target, they become lockable.

it's a nice idea, but i really think it needs balancing to fit into the game properly.

Edited by Jinn, 04 December 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

ECM pretty much means that the only viable light mech dogfighters right now are the commando and raven with ECM mounted.

You can't be targeted with streaks or LRMs (which is the only thing you ever had to worry about in a light if you were a half decent pilot because of the Crap netcode), and if your enemy has ECM, you just run in pairs and one goes counter and one goes disrupt and you can take out enemy ECM without breaking a sweat.

Every mech below 40 tons is now severely underpowered except the Commando and Raven ECM variants.

Sure it will be fine as is when they actually fix the netcode so that you can hit fast moving mechs on a deflection shot (and actually register damage), but until then it's pretty much a total bust.

[Streeter]

Xandre Blackheart, on 04 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

ECM pretty much means that the only viable light mech dogfighters right now are the commando and raven with ECM mounted.

You can't be targeted with streaks or LRMs (which is the only thing you ever had to worry about in a light if you were a half decent pilot because of the Crap netcode), and if your enemy has ECM, you just run in pairs and one goes counter and one goes disrupt and you can take out enemy ECM without breaking a sweat.

Every mech below 40 tons is now severely underpowered except the Commando and Raven ECM variants.

Sure it will be fine as is when they actually fix the netcode so that you can hit fast moving mechs on a deflection shot (and actually register damage), but until then it's pretty much a total bust.

As expected ECM is a little overpowered and any mech with out it is pretty badly handicapped. While it has changed up how the game plays and its nice to have a difference I still have to put on the dunce hat again and QQ for nerf please.

[Celticfrost15]

I do love the addition of ECM, I think, however, that it should effect friendly targets as well, if its a disruption of electronic signals, it should do "friendly fire" as well. This would help to counter NOT having ECM, as you would have no better targeting capabilities than your enemies.

[ICEFANG13]

I think its OP, but when the counters are working (say TAG, NARC, and/or BAP), I will have no problem with it. Seriously, anything that is only countered by itself? That just sounds OP doesn't it? It doesn't encouraged better tactics or gameplay, but it does encourage 4 things:
The Commando-2D
The Raven-3L
The Atlas-D-DC
And to a lesser extent, the Cicada-3M

Honestly, has a PUG today, far as I could tell, and all 16 mechs had ECM, in a random game? Insane.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 04 December 2012 - 10:14 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

If it's a field effect it should stop lock-on for friendlies also. Especially the mech carrying it. If they want to lock-on they should have to swap to counter.

[Silmaril]

Hmm..this seems to be a difficult topic. On the one hand this truly is not the mechassault or whatever console style shooter and requires planning and true tactical thinking. This is also not WoW , where the small guy can squish the big guy. Teamwork is way more important. On the other hand the game needs to be playable for people that don't run a larger premade. If I am playing with a lot of guys I can adjust and plan ahead of time for enemy assault mechs carrying ECM by having some gun boats on the team. Good luck to the Atlas pilot when my guys are shooting at your heat signature. Outside of such a premade, that kind of preparation is not possible...hence we might truly have an issue..

[WM Doddster Vajda]

ok, I like ECM, but shouldn't BAP counteract it and make it a level playing field? If the ECM is jamming and the BAP is actively pinging it should be a wash and make things sort of like they were before.

[Isking]

The only issue I have with ECM right now doesn't really have to do with its effects. It has more to do with the tonnage of the 'mech that mounts it. I can see lights and mediums mounting an ECM suite, but when I drop with my 8 man team using a balanced loadout of 'mechs and see 6 AS7-D-DC on the other team it's about pointless to run team drops.

[Knoxic]

The problems are, as I see it, as follows:

1. ECM Has caused most 8 mans to run solid teams of mostly Atlas D-DC's.

2. All combat is now regulated to up close brawls. LRM's are completly a non issue and while you can still snipe (Guass or PPC) the inability to target mech means it's just a guessing game on WHERE to snipe them. Since most 8 man are now Atlai meadium and heavy mech (who are suppose to be the backbone of Mechwarrior) can not stand up to the Steiner Scout Lances.

3. Speedy and Verstile mechs are now regulated to staying "blobbed" with there respective groups effictively taking away their advantages of being speedy and manueverable.

4.The description of the ECM's imply that they reduce the range or lock on by 25% which means that a LRM should now have to be at 750m, instead of 1000m, but this is not the case.


Ok now on to how I see PGI can "fix" the issue of ECM but keep it in the game.

1. Either take the ECM out of the Atlas altogether, or make the biggest engine you can put in it a 200. This keeps the Atlas slow, but playable, and not able to rush en masse with their entire team.

2. Have ECM work as decribed in the description.

3. Have some sort of weight restriction for 8 mans. +1, -1 seems ligitimate.

4. Have the B.A.P. counter the ECM for ONLY the mech equipping it.

Now here I must vent a little so if you don't want to read an old man's griping please feel free to skip the following section as it adds little to no impact to my argument but I feel it needs saying anyway.

It seems as though PGI either has no internal testing program or that team only tests to see if things are working at a basic level. If they had a competent testing team there is no way that ECM wouldv'e gotten introduced in the fashion it is today. Also it seems as though PGI overcompensates when making changes. The LRM debacle, for example, was unreal. They litterally went from being ok, to way overpowered, to useless, to about right, all the way back to now being completely useless again. It seems they do not keep track of the changes they make and simply go from one extreme to another. A simple log of changes they make to the game would solve so many of their balancing issues. A teamate of mine described it best when he said "If they would just quit putting the fat guy on one end of a see-saw and then just putting enough weight on the other side to balance it we would be ok. But they just keep moving the SOB back and forth."

Anyway the game state at them moment isn't fun if you run anything other than one of the ECM Variants and are on an Atlai team. There is no longer any strategy or variety, it's only "RUSH ALL THE ATLAS. Roll head on keyboard. WIN."

[Warge]

It'll be a fun to have missiles that lock on ECM-mechs only. So you can load your mech with "anti-normal" or "anti-ECM" missiles. And let only light mechs to carry ECM.

Edited by Warge, 04 December 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Seraphax, on 04 December 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I like that it forces PUG's to stick together now

yes it's good to force pugs to do something but we're in great danger of forcing everyone to stick to ecm all the time. just how sameme and onsided do you want this game to be?

[Asmosis]

ECM seems to be doing the job of multiple modules.

Perhaps some of its functionality should be offloaded to actual modules that "boost" the ECM component. like how BAP + sensor boost complement each other.

[ManDaisy]

ECM Counter is a little lacking. Making ECM counter have twice the range of ECM disrupt would make it more balanced.

BAP should be special in that it should be a single ECM counter for the equiped unit, that is not shared with allies of up to 90 meters.

ECM counter, and ECM disrupt radius should also show on the battlegrid and maps.

Edited by ManDaisy, 04 December 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[Rixsaw]

The patch notes say ECM reduces your range 25% of what it was. Meaning if you could target a LOS mech at 800 meters you can now target a mech at 200 meters.

I have found that distance to be like 100 meters, as I was shooting SRM 6's into an atlas I could see but couldn't pickup on radar.

I think the easy fix to the ECM is change it to 50% reduction, giving us 400 meters to play with rather than basically falling all over the enemy before we can press R.



On your other note about balancing. I have already posted several times on several forums and tried even emailing devs directly, that they are currently balancing things based on squeeky wheel feedback, and they are making multiple changes at the same time. LRM's it was firing arc, and Artimus, then Reduced Dammage and altering firing arc, then finally to get it close to right they found WOW there was a bug in LRM dmg, which they then fixed.

With Guass its we make them easier to explode... Wait that didn't do much why didn't that player also explode for using Guass rifle oh yeah we had a bug too lets fix the bug and still keep the balance change of easier to explode. (THATS 2 CHANGES!!)

They buffed streak cats back by fixing like 2 bugs and adding cockpit rock... Then streak cats were impossible to hit because you were blind while they fired on you. Heck you couldn't even run away... Etc... it goes on I'll stop now.


We tried to figure out the ECM thing and found that we won more often when we just ran our normal 8 man and ignored the ECM effect. We did try to keep 1 ECM atlas to counter the enemy ECM.

[Fooooo]

Reading thru this thread it seems some love it, some hate it.


I haven't actually had time to try the patch yet, however......

If it is a must have for someone to have in a pub match then it will need to be balanced via matchmaker, if its not adusted, imo.


Also, as a somewhat counter.....

You could make TAG more useful against ECM'ed mechs. IE any mech under an ECM bubble can be targeted by a TAG laser up to 1km or something etc........although that probably just makes TAG a must have for almost every mech then.........(at least in pub matches)

Or do something with NARC beacons etc..........

Edited by Fooooo, 04 December 2012 - 10:59 PM.