Dax Legend, on 04 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:
I think we have to play a week or two to see ECM real impact.
All players have to change play style.
For now, all I can see is :
1- Almost game have no more LRMs, and almost didn't use SSRM now. For result CPLT-A1 have to use only SRMs
2- Players have traded the LRMs for SRMs
3- Fight are close range now
4- I see more ACs too.
5- Give premade team great advantage, pug team can't know if ECM/TAG player will join their team.
I think peoples have to change their minds, I'm not sure ECM is really great, it seem too powerful, SSRMs and LRMs become useless until someone find a good countermesure to them.
Some tell use more TAG, mabye, but TAG affect only one player, ECM affect everyone.
Others tell to use ECM in counter mode.
Some just tell, kill comandos first. (it seem comandos put a target on their head) but an Atlas is more hard to eliminate.
It will be almost impossible to win VS a full team AS7-D-DC equiped with 3x SMR6 and 2 AC5 (I think it's the more powerful close range setup at this time)
I have seen four AS7-D-DC win without any lost in their team.
Soon, for chassis who can use ECM, we will see only variant that can use ECM, all other variant will be useless.
Mostly true, indeed, except we don't have to change our minds. I was skeptical that ECM was actually remotely balanced and I'm 100% certain of it now after seeing it in action.
My own observations closely mirror much of your own on the premade side. LRMs and Streaks are much less common because locks are less reliable and combat is happening at much shorter distances.
I'll point out the obvious to anyone who actually stops to think it through, too. (sorry PGI'ers if I'm stepping on your feet)
TAG is not a hard counter to ECM.
TAG allows you to target ONE hidden mech while you are hitting it. It also allows others to target it by proxy (if you aren't disrupted). But there are serious drawbacks here... an ECM covers multiple mechs, a TAG by definition only one... and requires continual exposure and impedes torso twisting to avoid CT damage from counter-fire. A single mistake can also cost friendly LRM'ers one or more salvos since a brief targeting loss results in lost locks (which are slower to regain and BAP doesn't help) and therefore wasted LRMs.
The not so obvious kicker here is that the ONLY ECM-carrier you can actually reliably TAG to counter is the Atlas D-DC. The idea you can reliably TAG a Commando, Raven or Cicada is ridiculous. It doesn't happen often enough to have any merit. And of course if you're chasing an ECM light with TAG but don't have your own ECM to counter, what's stopping the ECM'er to turn around and disrupt you, therefore invalidating TAG?
OMG. There goes the 'hard' counter.
Also, the idea that ECM is a counter to itself. Well... it's both true and false.
An equal or higher number of ECM are a counter to ECM.
That's it, folks. If you have fewer ECMs than your opponents, you are at a large disadvantage because in a blob war
you don't have enough ECMs to counter theirs. There's no point in sending a light or two in to disrupt the enemy D-DC blob's ECM because they have more ECMs than you do. Couple that with the high radius of the ECM effect and the ownage is complete. A handful of ECM mechs can so thoroughly disrupt an enemy formation who lacks enough ECMs to counter that it literally becomes an arms race.
Whoever has the most ECMs shall almost certainly win.
And poor PUGs can never know how many ECMs and/or TAGs there will be in the team. So, the matchmaker pre-emptively decides who's going to win based on random chance of distributing ECM-laden mechs to both sides.
Another note... The idea you need ECM to sneak around the map is badly flawed because the maps are already designed such that you can sneak up on the enemy and I've never observed lack of surprises. Forest Colony Cave, for example? Or Frozen City tunnel? Why do we need ECM again for that? Surely I'm not the only one who happened to be looking elsewhere other than the frontline and saw half (or more of) the enemy team sneaking up behind our lines completely by surprise before ECM was ever released.
So, summing up... we have a 1,5 ton piece of gear that can be equipped in a few select mech variants which turn both the user and everyone around him into a Ninja. A Ninja with immunity to missiles. A Ninja whose stealth cannot be countered except piecemeal by flashing a laser pointer at him (and getting shot at for the trouble) or by having at least as many Anti-Ninjas (ECM in counter mode) as there are Ninja-fiers.
Dax Legend, on 04 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:
At this time, I think ECM have to be nerfed (range of efficiencies) or long range attack will disapear.
All peoples who like ECM are peoples who play light/medium mechs.
I understand very well those players finding themself more usefull.
I don't if ECM are good or not for the game.
Mabye in a week or two I'll think differently.
ECM has to be nerfed otherwise in the long term nobody will play any variants without ECM. And/or it will devolve into BlobWarrior Online.
Heck, I have no argument against that outcome because that's pretty much the tactic I see is most useful with ECM as it is. People aren't dumb, they WILL gravitate towards blobbing around ECM mechs because anything else cuts down their life expectancy sharply!
Sigh. Final word here... think about these (rhetorical?) questions.
If I am PUGging, why would I use any variant that does not have ECM if the mech I'm using has one variant with ECM (skill-grinding aside)?
If I am PUGging, why would I ever use weapons that are so easily hard countered when I can't be certain there will actually be anyone on my team with the means to help me?
If I am running a Premade, why would I ever want to use any team setup that does not have everyone running their own ECM?
If you can actually find good reasons that aren't strictly situational or conditional to the enemy NOT having any ECM mechs, I'm all ears.
Edit : Did I mention that ECM negatively affects PGI's goal of build diversity? Oh, right, it's implicit. Just thought I'd remind everyone of that...
Edited by Scratx, 05 December 2012 - 03:33 AM.
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