18 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Garth Erlam, on 11 May 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

... So here is some Friends and Family Beta news.

We launched version 2.0.14 this week, which has a (mostly) functional Mechlab. Immediately everyone set about trying to break it – we had all large laser Atlas’, Machinegun/AC-2/Flamer Hunchbacks, and a Jenner that seemed to go Mach 1, but we thought we’d share the following with you:
Modified Hunchback HBK 4P:

• Replace the six Medium Lasers in the right torso with six Small Lasers
  
• Change the arms to - right arm: 2x Medium Lasers, left arm: 2x Small Lasers
  
• Remove all heat sinks and armour from left torso
  
• Max the armour of both legs
  
• Add heatsinks to legs/right torso/arms until you’re maxed (26 total heatsinks)

The idea of this ‘Mech is that you run extremely cool, able to constantly fire your small lasers as you close in on your opponent. The leg armour prevents legging, and the reduced left torso armour allows you to stack it over more important areas. It performs extremely well close up, though be wary of ranged opponents, who will simply keep outside your small lasers distance and pick you apart!

I see a major problem with this configuration - the lack of left torso armor means a shot coming in from the left (as in: someone standing to your left shoots you in the left ribcage) will go straight through the chassis, by-pass the center torso armor, and go straight to the reactor!

There is no significant internal armor layer inbetween the center torso compartment and the left torso compartment, so a shot that goes in through the left will go straight through the hollow left torso compartment until it hits something, and that "something" will be your engine in the center torso.

So... in Garth's example Mech, wouldn't that thing basically die from a few shots that hit the left torso from the left side of its body?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 May 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

If they do Crits, it could be a real problem. Sounds like a poor Build anyways.

[Eximar]

You won't be able to circle strafe Nascar style in that beastie.

[Orzorn]

I suppose a large part of playing that variant is keeping your left torso guarded. Use that big autocannon to block like a shield, and use your arms to keep firing even while you're turned away from the enemy.

The fact that MWO has arms will change so much of the gameplay.

Edit:

It seems that we missed this little bit:
http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__239959

Quote

No it's not meant to absorb damage, it's a glass cannon (ish). The idea is that you hold your Right Shoulder towards the enemy, and always hit them.

That said it isn't my build - I go max armour with everything I use

So it's as a I described. You use your autocannon to block your weak left torso.

Edited by Orzorn, 11 May 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[Dihm]

Only ididoth use smal lazor lawl.

[CoffiNail]

I think Garth meant, remove all heat sinks, and some armour from left torso... not make left torso see through...

Because... you know, walking around with your internals hanging out is the new cool thing to do in the FedCom

Edited by CoffiNail, 11 May 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Orzorn]

CoffiNail, on 11 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Because... you know, walking around with your internals hanging out is the new cool thing to do in the FedCom

ComStar presents FedCom Co-eds Gone Wild! Watch these wild and crazy feddies let it all hang out as they pilot barely protected mechs! These naughty pilots will do whatever it takes to get hot and bothered in their scantily clad machines!

ORDER NOW! ONLY 20 EASY PAYMENTS OF 9.99 C-BILLS!

[Garth Erlam]

You're gonna love my 'Mechs!

[Kasiagora]

My concern is that with 2 small lasers and some heat sinks in the left arm, but no armor in the left torso then wouldn't that gear be getting blown off when a lucky shot does land on the left torso? I noticed you didn't say "remove armor from the left arm" and I figure that's because it's going to be sticking out past the torsos and having some arcs with those small lasers. I just think you might rather pile that stuff up even more onto the right arm/torso, center torso, or head. Let that entire side of your mech be jettisonable!

[Gigaton]

Prosperity Park, on 11 May 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

There is no significant internal armor layer inbetween the center torso compartment and the left torso compartment, so a shot that goes in through the left will go straight through the hollow left torso compartment until it hits something, and that "something" will be your engine in the center torso.

That's not exactly how damage transfer works in TT under standard rules. You do need to go through armour first when transferring damage points. Critical hits (but not internal damage) do transfer in certain situations through armour, but it's only if the internal structure in the location hit is still intact. So basically, if you hit destroyed LT in TT the damage is transerred to CT armour first, but if you shoot intact LT and cause internal damage the critical hit may be assigned to CT (to be exact, the crits are transferred if there is nothing to crit in the location at the start of the current phase).

However, assuming MWO will have slightly less strict transfer rules to being with, what you described would be a good way to handle it in the game. Eg. you shoot destroyed left torso from the front and it goes through harmlessly except for some rocking, but if you shoot left torso from left arc it goes through and into the central torso internals past armour. So in essence, not all damage transfers, but when it does transfer it transfers into the internals (unlike in TT).

Edited by Gigaton, 11 May 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Garth Erlam, on 11 May 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

You're gonna love my 'Mechs!

We are so confident that you'll love our Mechs that we'll send you one right now, for free, so you can try it out for the next 30 days! And if you're unsatisfied for ANY reason, just send it back; We'll pay for return shipping, and you can even keep the Dashboard Hula as our gift.


Also:

Gigaton, on 11 May 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

That's not exactly how damage transfer works in TT under standard rules. You do need to go through armour first when transferring damage points. Critical hits (but not internal damage) do transfer in certain situations through armour, but it's only if the internal structure in the location hit is still intact. So basically, if you hit destroyed LT in TT the damage is transerred to CT armour first, but if you shoot intact LT and cause internal damage the critical hit may be assigned to CT.

However, assuming MWO will have slightly less strict transfer rules to being with, that would be a good way to handle it in the game. Eg. you shoot destroyed left torso from the front and it goes through harmlessly except for some rocking, but if you shoot left torso from left arc it goes through and into the central torso internals past armour.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about TT damage transfer rules, I was talking about physical damage. If there's no internal armor layer between the compartments, there's no reason to transfer damage to somebody's armor... because the armor didn't get hit. So, I agree with your 2nd paragraph entirely.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 May 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[UncleKulikov]

Prosperity Park, on 11 May 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

I see a major problem with this configuration - the lack of left torso armor means a shot coming in from the left (as in: someone standing to your left shoots you in the left ribcage) will go straight through the chassis, by-pass the center torso armor, and go straight to the reactor!

There is no significant internal armor layer inbetween the center torso compartment and the left torso compartment, so a shot that goes in through the left will go straight through the hollow left torso compartment until it hits something, and that "something" will be your engine in the center torso.

So... in Garth's example Mech, wouldn't that thing basically die from a few shots that hit the left torso from the left side of its body?

If it works like Tabletop Damage spreading, once you destroy the left torso completely any damage to that area is transferred to the surface armor of the center torso. so there will probably be a division between the side torso hitbox and ther center.

[3Xtr3m3]

Fellow Mechwarrior,
When someone who is playing the game daily tells you things like mech builds and tactics,
You take notes

[trycksh0t]

Dihm, on 11 May 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Only ididoth use smal lazor lawl.

I would normally agree with you, but if you get close enough, which shouldn't be a problem with most areas having max armor, having 8 of 'em is gonna hurt. A lot. That's 24 damage total, and I'm willing to bet that small lasers recycle pretty darn quick. This is giving me stupid ideas...

[DirePhoenix]

I agree with the title of this thread that hollow torsos should not serve as "ballastic" armor. They should instead be ball-tastic armor!

[LordDeathStrike]

Garth Erlam, on 11 May 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

You're gonna love my 'Mechs!

atlas with 3 clan gauss rifles and an artemis 4 lrm 20? (1 grifle in each arm and one in right torso of course)

trycksh0t, on 11 May 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

I would normally agree with you, but if you get close enough, which shouldn't be a problem with most areas having max armor, having 8 of 'em is gonna hurt. A lot. That's 24 damage total, and I'm willing to bet that small lasers recycle pretty darn quick. This is giving me stupid ideas...

small pulse lazorz are even nastier

[Helmer]

It is key to note Garth said reduced Left Torso armor, not NO Left torso armor.

It appears that in the 'mechlab you must not need to have matching armor values for LT and RT. I could see pulling a few points from one side, armoring up the other and trying to pilot it in a way to only present the one side.

Risky, but possible.

Guess once "Summer 2012" hits we will get to tinker 'til our hearts are content


Cheers.

[Sassori]

I find it amusing that anyone thinks Small Lasers, 8 of them, is a good offense on a mech that moves 4/6. It's kind of wierd... also wierd that they had /26 heat sinks/ on a mech that only generated 16 heat max. Well yeah, it should run cooler than ice... it had 10 extra heat sinks!

I dunno, some of these mechs (Like the forumuserkiller that Paul made in the video? That thing was... not well designed) that they come up with there just boggle the mind.

[Victor Morson]

I am abit concerned by how damage transfer works here. While the left torso isn't vital if a 'mech isn't running an XL engine, once it's gone, the center should in fact be exposed from the destroyed area. In the past there was damage transfer; and I think that's not a half bad idea. I'm actually very much against an unarmored section acting as an invincible shield,and can't imagine it actually will work that way in the final game.