23 replies to this topic

[Cearrdorn]

Part of the issue with there not being very many TAG carrying mechs in pugs is the rediculously short distance you need to be (well inside all but the shortest ranged weapons effective range) from the target. 450 Meters for an item that does no direct damage (and is essentially a laser target designator) means that light mechs don't get to sneak about to do their job they basically have to do it on the run. When you add to that the random radar locks at 1500m that break at 200m (with neither being a LOS lock) the 'rules' for targeting as a light mech make no sense. Ranged targeting is too sensitive by default and seems to be very inconsistent even when a mech is carrying targeting enhancement+TAG (I realize beagle isn't working yet but I have that as well.)

If we are to look at roles as meaningful, TAG is one of the crucial aspects of scout mech deployment. If I have to sneak up to knife range to TAG someone with what is essentially a laser pointer, (not to mention you can see it if it hits your canopy...) it's generally just not worth the risk to life and mech.

[Stickjock]

Don't know... TAG seems OK to me... and I've got it installed on my 2xLRM15 Cat... sacrificed a Med Laser for it, but that way I can move up a few hundred meters behind the assaults and STILL be able to TAG/light up my own targets if no one else is...

[Cearrdorn]

Stickjock, on 16 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Don't know... TAG seems OK to me... and I've got it installed on my 2xLRM15 Cat... sacrificed a Med Laser for it, but that way I can move up a few hundred meters behind the assaults and STILL be able to TAG/light up my own targets if no one else is...

I realize art costs more per ton but isn't that what art does at LOS range?

[Skyfaller]

Perhaps add an 'ER TAG' that weighs 3 tons and has 600m range?

[Keltzmaa]

I realize the weapon ranges were changed from TT. I agree that it made more sense to do so. However, the scaling is a little unbalanced. TAG is one of these cases. The tabletop rules have the TAG range as very similar to a large laser. This seems to make more sense to me. As a frequent Jenner pilot, I am currently running BAP (which also needs a rework IMO) and a TAG. It really doesn't make a lot of sense that I have to get so close to spot targets when I've sacrificed 2 tons for 25% more sensor range.

Typical uses for a device like a TAG (I know reality has little influence on games) is to clandestinely paint a target to assist in indirect fire. At the current ranges, there is almost no opportunity for it to be used this way. It's nearly impossible to remain hidden and get within that 450.

[Gavin McStine]

Hmm, not sure of this. Perhaps the whole item should be reworked. A TAG is generaly something that is short range. You always think of someone using a TAG unit wile someone else fires a missile from a safe distance.

It proberly should be alot better for a cost of one tone and one slot. I'm not sure if it gives off heat or not, but even if it didnt its still to much.

3 suggestions

Eather have it as a mod, that doesnt take up any space or weight and have it be required to be researched/learned.

-or-

Have it use an AMS like slot, which uses one tonne and slot, but it doesnt have to be locked on by shooting a target. Just having a lock on a target and a visual, it will use say, optical computer to fire the TAG on the locked target. It proberly could use the same coding as an AMS, except the target would be a mech instead of missiles.

-or-

Change it to half tonne, or if it can be done change it to less, like armor. And since it would be equipment over a weapon, for it not to use a energy slot. Its not a weapon so it shouldnt generate heat.

Because right now,. IRL people are using a TAG system, so it cant weigh even a quarter of a tonne.

[Skyfaller]

An ER tag is all that is needed.


Make the current tag be 30 degree cone from the mech's torso aimpoint that way in short range it can tag a target reliably.

The ER tag make it be... 2 crit slots, 2 tons .. 800m range and be poinpoint (like the current TAG).

That way the TAG system is workable for close combat support lights and for true long range scout lights.

[Garagano]

IMHO, the TAG is fine the way it is now. I run mainly a scout, and it is very easy to sneak behind the enemy.
LOL-fact: i always get to the enemy base on the Frozen maps through the cave with no enemy there or anywhere in sight (seems ppl are getting careless lately).

On all maps, there are ways to get close to the target without exposing yourself. You just have to be careful to not to be spotted first by using the cover, and here is where skill comes into play. The maps are well designed.
A 1000m TAG laser would make LRM boats even more OP than they are now. TAG makes the LRM more efficient.
In my understanding, the TAG is a support instrument and to be honest, i think the TAG should be restricted to light/scout mechs only.

The bigger problem here is, that most LRM carriers in PUGs do not bother with a TAGed target at all!

[focuspark]

TAG + ECM cloaked spotter will be very nice. Wait for it...

[Keltzmaa]

focuspark, on 28 November 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

TAG + ECM cloaked spotter will be very nice. Wait for it...

Unfortunately, I unlocked master in Jenners . I get to start again with cicada i guess.

[Nightfangs]

The range is okay I think... if you were to get closer to 1000 meters, the whole spam-fest would start all over again.

Another idea... every additional TAG-laser you use adds another 50 m of tagging range.
Use 2, get 500 m, use 4 and tag from 600 m away. Just a random idea.

Edited by Nightfangs, 03 December 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[focuspark]

TAG should just be LOS to the target. Anything else means the spotter has to be directly in harms way while attempting to keep the laser pointer on the target.

[Ursh]

A light mech has to be way too clever to use tag effectively. Given that two of the three maps offer lrm boats ways to provide front cover with no rear cover for a light to sneak up on them, I think TAG should be much longer ranged.

It seems like it's short range at the moment because PGI is secretly acknowledging how devastating it is when an artemis lrm boat with a laser slot tags its own shots. The other reason would be that a damn near unhittable Jenner using lagshield could dance in front of enemy mechs at range, tagging them, while the 3 lrm boats on their team rain focused fire on the target.

[MaddMaxx]

If you feel TAG is too short a range, how about NARC range and it lasts only for 15 seconds...

[focuspark]

Ursh, on 03 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

It seems like it's short range at the moment because PGI is secretly acknowledging how devastating it is when an artemis lrm boat with a laser slot tags its own shots. The other reason would be that a damn near unhittable Jenner using lagshield could dance in front of enemy mechs at range, tagging them, while the 3 lrm boats on their team rain focused fire on the target.

Simple fix: disallow tagging for your own missiles.

[Garagano]

focuspark, on 03 December 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Simple fix: disallow tagging for your own missiles.

This will render TAG more useless, and is in no logical consistance to the tag laser.
Why should the TAG marking only be useful for other team mates and not for your self?
Please provide a technological explanation.

[Icebound]

Just make it so you don't have to constantly hold down the button. That would be a significant improvement in my book.

[focuspark]

Garagano, on 03 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Please provide a technological explanation.

Only after you explain how any BattleTech technology works. Lol seriously?

[Garagano]

Icebound, on 03 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Just make it so you don't have to constantly hold down the button. That would be a significant improvement in my book.

there are already "workarounds" for it. Look for "autofire tag" in this forum

[Garagano]

focuspark, on 03 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Only after you explain how any BattleTech technology works. Lol seriously?

cant do that. =)

but, ... a tagged targed is a lit up targed on every friendly mech in the teams mech computer, supported by the computer system. So, why shouldn't it be light up on your own mech as well?