165 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

Talys, on 06 December 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

I find it curious that an ECCM can only counter one ECM equipped mech. If it's generating a field it should be able to affect more than one ECM mech. If a mech in counter mode could impact any disrupting ECMs within it's range and the ECM bubble had limited duration per use and a small cooldown perhaps that would mix things up a bit.

It's not hard to counter ECM even when the enemy team has more mechs with ECM.

Using my Raven for example I was the only ECM capable mech on my team, I had my team keep most of the enemy team busy with direct fire, got into a 1 on 1 fight with the enemy raven, pulled it away from the fight, switched to counter, TAGged that raven and had my team destroy it with LRM fire.

After that it was easy to do the same with an enemy Cicada.

Only the enemy Atlas DDC remained and it was an easy counter + TAG then switch back to disrupt to gain the ECM advantage for my team.

Is it really so difficult for other teams to do this?

[Eltyr]

Zylo, on 07 December 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

It's not hard to counter ECM even when the enemy team has more mechs with ECM.

Using my Raven for example I was the only ECM capable mech on my team, I had my team keep most of the enemy team busy with direct fire, got into a 1 on 1 fight with the enemy raven, pulled it away from the fight, switched to counter, TAGged that raven and had my team destroy it with LRM fire.

After that it was easy to do the same with an enemy Cicada.

Only the enemy Atlas DDC remained and it was an easy counter + TAG then switch back to disrupt to gain the ECM advantage for my team.

Is it really so difficult for other teams to do this?

Like you say, it isn't the number of ECM mechs that determine the win. In my experience, its how good they are, and the quality of the backup fire. In games we win, whenever I counter another ECM mech, my team kills them, immediately. In games we don't, people expect me to kill them, and then the enemy's greater numbers of ECM come into play. Most ECM mechs die easy. A good team will have no problem killing several ECM mechs, so long as they aren't Atlases. At least in PUG play, most teams separate from their D-DC, and it is easy to kill them piecemeal. I don't know about 8 man play, but in PUGS, it isn't a big deal.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Einlanzer, on 07 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

My response to people crying over ECM:

Get a decent team to play with. Send in a group with a scout or atlas with a counter ECM so you can go back to your SkillRM spam. Or when you pug adapt and learn to aim instead of using imho the extremely boring, unskilled crutch that is lrm's and ssrm's. I never found it fun or satisfying sitting back and unloading LRM's on moronic pugs who let themselves get caught in the open. Also, cutting down a jenner or commando is not difficult with lasers, and if your halfway decent you can lead your shots and score an alpha of srm's, ac, or gauss along with your lasers.

Some minor balancing issues remain but with the incoming buff to tag that should be less of a problem.

Just my opinion

There are many layers to "crying over ECM". I see ECM has a broken mechanic that offers far too much power for its tonnage/heat investment, so I want to see it adjusted. It has nothing to do with "learn to aim" or using LRMs as a crutch.

One could just as easily turn your argument around into: "So you're so bad at finding cover and avoiding LRMs that you're only recompense is the outright nullification of the weapon. If you're as good at space robots as you say, then you shouldn't even need ECM on your team."

Perhaps players could try to take a more impartial, objective view about overall game balance instead of boasting and accusing anyone that disagrees with you as being an unskilled newbie?

[Einlanzer]

Eldragon, on 07 December 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

There are many layers to "crying over ECM". I see ECM has a broken mechanic that offers far too much power for its tonnage/heat investment, so I want to see it adjusted. It has nothing to do with "learn to aim" or using LRMs as a crutch.

One could just as easily turn your argument around into: "So you're so bad at finding cover and avoiding LRMs that you're only recompense is the outright nullification of the weapon. If you're as good at space robots as you say, then you shouldn't even need ECM on your team."

Perhaps players could try to take a more impartial, objective view about overall game balance instead of boasting and accusing anyone that disagrees with you as being an unskilled newbie?

How could one easily turn my argument into: "So you're so bad at finding cover and avoiding LRMs that you're only recompense is the outright nullification of the weapon. If you're as good at space robots as you say, then you shouldn't even need ECM on your team"?

For starters, LRM's have never been hard to deal with, even in a map without alot of significant cover. Because even in that case there's always a rock or ridge or something to use as cover. Secondly, I don't use ECM in my primary mechs anyways, I do however find it a nice bonus when I want to mix things up and use a scout or an Atlas to support the team.

How's this for an impartial, objective view on game balance? I think ecm offers another layer of complexity and strategy to the game. It sounds to me like you don't like having to deal with or plan for that additional facet of the game. What do you find so broken about a mechanic that can easily be countered by someone else using the same piece of equipment? Furthermore "ECM" is very obviously displayed on enemy targets making them easy for your team to focus down. To add on to that additional bit of required teamwork, having ecm makes your team's scouts more valuable for spotting the enemy's potentially cloaked position and calling them out.

Since you're so objective, what is your proposed solution for "adjusting" ecm so it's balanced? In my opinion saying that ecm is broken and offers too much power for its weight is a bit much. I say this because only select variants can use it and it's pretty easy for the devs to balance those mechs around the advantage of having it in the first place. I would be much more inclined to agree with you if any mech could equip it. In that case, I would agree that for its tonnage, space, heat investment etc. that ECM would be mandatory for everyone.

Edited by Einlanzer, 07 December 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Nightcrept]

It's hard to believe ecm has been around this long without an effective counter or nerf.