27 replies to this topic

[xXBagheeraXx]

I posted this several times in the other thread, but i felt it needed its own to make sure it would properly be read and interpreted...

ECM should be split into two separate add ons. A restriction of ONE of the ecm add-on per mech should also be implemented. BUT you can also carry BAP and ONE ECM suite

Ecm could be divided up into Guardian Ecm (Gecm) and Angel Ecm (Aecm)

Guardian Ecm when equipped will only mask the carrying mech...You will not be picked up on sensors within visual range by standard radar until about 500 to 600 meters...Mechs with BAP installed will be able to pick you up at 600 to 700 meters. Missile lock times, and the time it takes for enemies to see what your mech is carrying and your mechs status will also be increased. Scouts will favor this ecm suite to do what they are supposed to do...SCOUT...it will make them harder to detect, and easier to sneak behind enemy lines and harass mechs with bad point defense weapons, and get out un-noticed if need be. ANY mech should be able to mount this system

Angel ECM will mask all allied mechs within 180 meters or so of the carrier mech, but the carrier himself will be targetable. The carrying mech will still be slightly harder to target, and missile locks will still take longer, but you will be detectable at the full 1k meter standard radar range within line of site (the way targeting worked before the patch basically) BAP lock on time will be increased as well, and the bap effect vs the Aecm will be reduced to standard radar range as well, however mechs underneath the aecm cover cannot be narc'd, and tags will be more diffucult, this includes the carrying mech. THIS system should perhaps have chassis restrictions, as it is drastically more powerful imo, but careful consideration should be used when picking which chassis can carry this ecm. This system would be excellent cover for long range missile assets as they could fire at enemies with impunity if they had aecm cover, but thier cover would be vulerable to return fire...Also, long range direct-fire weapons that can be fired from cover would also negate this, as by the time you got a solid lrm lock, the target would be back behind cover, cooling down and waiting for his weapons to reload.

With this system you could easily have more tactical games, without completely nullifying anyone not mounting BAP or ECM (none of my lrm boats mounted BAP, and now that i NEED it, missiles are useless) and making whole weapon systems and mechs usless unless they are packing Srms and lasers.....(tho i will say i love my srm6 A1 in ways i should see a doctor about...)

[Verminaard]

Interesting suggestion, Its worth looking into. I agree that it could be a possible fix dividing ECM into two components with different, yet similar effects.

However Buffing BAP to somewhat overcome some of ECM's effects could also solve the issue, the question to me is; will BAP be buffed? If not, then ECM must be tweaked.

Basically your suggestion comes down into :

-Self concealing ECM
-Current version of ECM except it doesn't hide you
-BAP (With tweaks)

So you'd need both ECM's equipped to get the current in game effect, or simple have a buddy with the AOE ECM? But in the end BAP can counter ECM in your version? (As I believe it should be IMO)

[xXBagheeraXx]

Bap will have increased range against Gecm mechs, yes. that is its "buff" so to speak...this way gecm will have some effects against bap, and visa versa...both systems will have a purpose in the game...and also both gecm and bap can be mounted on the same mech....making a really evil scout mech (I belive one of the ravens already has this as a default?)

You should NOT however be able to run both ecm systems on the same mech, and YES you can have a buddy covering you with his aoe ecm, but He himself will be plainly visable. Aecm mechs also should not be able to overlap and cover other Aecm carriers...mechs mounting that system will always be plainly visible, albeit with increased lock times, and slightly reduced bap range.

[Kurios]

Still say take ECM away from the Steiner Scouting Lances, and things will get better.

[Sneaky B]

Now, if only there was some kind of anti-radiation missile...

http://www.sarna.net...diation_Missile

Edited by Sneaky B, 04 December 2012 - 11:36 PM.

[ProphetX]

May be allow a "direct fire mode" for LRM and SSRM, removing the targetting issue.

[Thomas Covenant]

•Make it weigh a lot more.

and/or

•Break up its abilities
just hide from radar, or just prevent LRMs. maybe there should be a seperate ECCM that a lot of mechs can weild.

so much going on for 1.5 tons

[RainbowToh]

ProphetX, on 04 December 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

May be allow a "direct fire mode" for LRM and SSRM, removing the targetting issue.

That would make SRM n future MRM pointless

[Marineballer]

Hmm
I thought it will improve the game.
I know it offers offensive possibilities like flanking and something like that.
However, its only a siccor, stone and paper thing. In premade it seems that its important to have more ecm as the enemy. We had games where we fought against 5 or more ECM.
That force me, to take 5 ecm, too. That decrease the variety of seen mechs.

I would like to cap the number of ecm to 2 (or 3 ) per team. It's only a suggestion. It will force right positioning, think about dropdecs and variety of mechs without a loss of teamplay.

EDIT: Another point wich comes to my mind is that ECM in the implementation now reduce role warfare. most of the mechs wich were driven are ecm mechs. so when 6 of 8 players have ecm then its not a role, it a force to have.
There should be a "role" for electronic warfare. Thats the role of Raven, commando or maybe an command mech. I know DDC is command-type oof atlas. However its a game its not a novel or lore.

just my 2 cents.

[Pihoqahiak]

One minor nerf I think would be appropriate for ECM is to have it generate heat while toggled on. This is of course not in line with "canon" functionality, but I think it would help bring the power level of ECM back down to something more reasonable. Also, it would be a very accurate representation of real ECM systems. Real ECM systems run very hot while transmitting. The realism is just an added bonus though, lol. I also feel that it will take more than just heat generation to balance out ECM. As Marineballer pointed out, ECM isn't an option for serious and competitive play as it stands right now, it's mandatory, and having just one ECM mech isn't enough, you really are going to want 3 or 4. That sort of game mechanic doesn't enrich a gaming experience, it narrows it :-( I will give PGI the benefit of the doubt on this one though, as I think they probably know that ECM will need some adjusting, but I sure wish they had a bit more foresight to have introduced it in a slightly more polished way closer to being reasonably balanced.

[Kobura]

[color=#000000]first developed by [/color]Clan Smoke Jaguar[color=#000000] in [/color]3055[color=#000000] and put into production by [/color]3057

Don't die waiting...

[Stingz]

Thomas Covenant, on 05 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

•Make it weigh a lot more.

and/or

•Break up its abilities
just hide from radar, or just prevent LRMs. maybe there should be a seperate ECCM that a lot of mechs can weild.

so much going on for 1.5 tons

Making it weigh more wont do a thing to D-DC users(100 tons), only hurting lighter mechs.

[Ginga121]

I'm guessing a lot of you posting here don't play in Light Mechs much?

I carry an ECM, a Tag and a Beagle in my raven along with an XL 295 Engine, Endo-steel structure, DHS's and Ferro-Fibrous armour.

That doesn't leave me a lot of room for weapons. I have 1 Streak and 2 Medium lasers which doesn't really pack much of a punch. My role is largely to spot, tag or cover friendlies rather than doing damage. You up the weight of ECM's and Lights will use them less often as the extra weight will mean even less weaponry. You make them Generate heat while on (Considering they can't be switched off) and no mech is ever going to use them. That and the heat efficiency of lights isn't particularly fantastic most of the time anyway.

Remember that the lower tonnage of a light mech means that the more Electronic Warfare Suites they are carry, the less weaponry they can have.

I would suggest having a very select few mechs able to use ECM. Ravens, as far as I am aware, have always been the primary EW mechs. Having Cicada's and maybe Commando's with ECM's would be the limit for me.

I don't know who thought giving an Atlas the chance to essentially cloak itself and it's nearby allies was a good idea? No mech over 40 Tonnes should be able to use ECM's or it's just a silly mix of countermeasures and heavy weapon loadouts.

Other than that I think it is fairly well balanced. I DO like the idea of limiting the number of ECM's on a team. Perhaps the matchmaking system could be tweaked to implemement some kind of ECM checker?

p.s. Streak Commando's should NOT have ECM's. They are already OP without making them impossible to lock onto for anyone without an ECM

Edited by Ginga121, 05 December 2012 - 04:48 AM.

[Justa Dogtrooper]

Ecm is fine as it is, I'd like to see more mechs with it...how else do you counter. ?
Why make just a few carry it. It then becomes a game changer.
Not all mechs but more mechs.

I see it the same as AMS..some trust to the coverage of others.
Some like to protect themselves.

The only thing that will stop Ecm is Ecm. So OP in limited numbers in my humble opinion

[Lupin]

Do think that BAP should counter ECM a little in range. After all IT IS an active probe.

Also think ECM field is to big. I have not tried to see how many of my team I could cover in 200m, but having seen 8 Mech sitting on a base I would say that was a good example.

[Tice Daurus]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1550112

[Jabilac]

I think ECM with its current system is a little too powerful. I think a good counter would be to split the disrupt and cloak abilities up to two separate units. Keep the "cloak" ECM on the current mechs and add an equal number of mechs that can mount the "Disrupt" unit. Give the "Disrupt" unit to Cents, Hunchies, and Dragons.

Another idea is to create a linked BAP system. Each BAP equipped Mech that says within 180m of another one would receive a buff to BAP and "cut through" the ECM fog. Two BAP Mech can target different enemies and use Lock On weapons with a lock on time penalty. Both BAP mechs targeting the same enemy allows others to target that enemy with increased lock on time. Three would drop the lock on penalty.

[Monoc]

My comment from the feedback thread:

Tungsten Phoenix, on 04 December 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

A few things:

Make Artemis a line of sight counter to ECM (like TAG)
Allow BAP to help burn through some, not all, ECM.
Do something with NARC, ANYTHING. It needs a purpose still.


Personally, I liked MW4's ECM. Cut detection range to half. Detection was at 500m vs 1000m. (with BAP was 600 vs 1200m).
And it only protected the mech that carried it.

I say do something similar. Take the Counter ECM ability out and change it to two modes.
1. Directed personal protection. (current blanket strength, requires a lock on the mech you are jamming)
2. Wide Area Noise. (Half of current strength)

You could also add more mechs being able to field ECM, but limit them to one mode if needed.

I could have been mistaken about the MW4 BAP range. It might have been 1500m and ECM reduced it to 750.

Thought about an Artemis Counter:

Since Artemis is essentially a BAP coupled with TAG, give it a slight sensor boost (25% of the BAP boost), require line of sight for the tighter spread, and leave the missile spread bonus where it is. Does not detect shut down mechs or stack with BAP (BAP takes over) but, does stack with the sensor boost pilot module

More thought on a two mode idea:
1. Focused Jamming - Targets one mech, requires lock on and line of sight, reduces that mech's sensor range to 75% (150m - 200m), must within 400m - 500m.

2. White Noise - Produces a 100m diameter bubble that reduces opponent sensor range by 50% (400m - 600m). Any mech within the bubble benifits.

This way ECM has one purpose, to jam sensors.
Use BAP, TAG, Artemis, pilot modules, and maybe NARC as effective counters.

[Herrmann van Hinden]

When rading the Posts, my first "Tuning" of ECM would be to make the area around capture Points to be immune to ECM, for enemy mechs as well as for your own, so you cant stay at the CP without being shoot at and you are always vulnerable when capturing. Draw a circle of 300 Meters around the capture Points where ECM is not working and everything will be fine. That might also be something you could implement into the structure there. Make it an ECM-Jammer with 1000 Hitpoints and counting as a Team kill if destroyed by the Team owning it.... and there is a new Piece of tactics to take care of......

Edited by Herrmann van Hinden, 05 December 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[Stingz]

Herrmann van Hinden, on 05 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

When rading the Posts, my first "Tuning" of ECM would be to make the area around capture Points to be immune to ECM, for enemy mechs as well as for your own, so you cant stay at the CP without being shoot at and you are always vulnerable when capturing. Draw a circle of 300 Meters around the capture Points where ECM is not working and everything will be fine. That might also be something you could implement into the structure there. Make it an ECM-Jammer with 1000 Hitpoints and counting as a Team kill if destroyed by the Team owning it.... and there is a new Piece of tactics to take care of......

Or, you know, shoot them with energy/ballistic/dumbfire LRMs. ECM only stops radar, it wont stop direct fired weapons.