37 replies to this topic

[RedrumnCoke]

I was wondering if anyone has any good advice for a Cicada, which lacks missile hardpoints, to compete vs light mechs with streaks. Usually they can't track lasers worth a damn (there are exceptions of course) but the relentless assault of ssrms piles on damage faster than I can whittle them down by tracking them w/lasers because I have the additional step of aiming whereas they, once target is locked, just strafe around while mashing the streak fire button. I usually aim for the legs, and can occasionally leg them, but not often enough to count on it.

Recently, I've just started to run away toward a friendly once they start shooting streaks, but if it's just me and them, I'll get their legs down as much as I can to help the next teammate they go after. If it's the Commando with 3 streaks and there are no friendlies around or a possible getaway, I just stop and let them kill me as it's not worth the frustration. Is there another part of the body I should aim at? Does the Cicada even stand a chance against them w/o a missile hardpoint of it's own? Even if I could replace just one of my small lasers with one streak, I think I would stand a chance, but obviously that's not possible. Is running away, as I've been doing, really the only recourse Cicadas have? Should I swap out my small lasers for something else? Any advice would be appreciated.

Edited by RedrumnCoke, 30 November 2012 - 06:13 AM.

[Indoorsman]

Instead of running away because you're not near your team, stop trying to be a jenner and stick w/your team in the first place :-p. Here's what I would do if I had a Cicada, which I don't. So you can hold that against me or... You can stick w/your team as I said, but go where they are hurting the most and help them out. Turn it into a numbers game, use your speed to be one place, and then 10 seconds later be somewhere else. In slower mechs there is downtime, the Cicada can take advantage of speed to always be assissting your team.

[RedrumnCoke]

I had picked the Cicada to be a scout for my LRM friends as I thought that was one of their roles. From what you're saying though, I should leave scouting to the light mechs as the Cicada simply can't beat them and stick close to and assist my teammates with their targets, perhaps only scouting when I see we have no light mechs, which means the other team doesn't either. I can give up scouting and do that, but I would still like some advice on facing them as there will still be times when our base is being capped by one and I am the only one who can get back in time (e.g. our light was already destroyed).

[Eggs Mayhem]

Light hunting will improve once the hitbox misalignment thing is gone. Pulse lasers were monstrous against jenners prior to the misalignment, so you'll definitely be able to go light hunting once that's working again. Until then, just hang out with the group and flank some enemy big guys that have already been engaged, or harass LRM boats.

Or if you're feeling saucy, slap a PPC on your cicada and use it as a skirmisher/suppressor. It can certainly be hard to aim, but being shot at will at least make the enemy fire support mechs want to hide for a bit.

[Pariah Devalis]

It is not that the Cicada cannot be a scout hunter, but Jenners and Commandos can usually out turn a Cicada and present a smaller target than the Cicada presents to them. With the ECM addition coming on line soon, I can see the relevant Cicada variant acting like a anti-scout/kill-support/Anti-Missile/quick-response platform. Plus, with ECM, you will be almost immune to streaks, yourself.

[RedrumnCoke]

Pariah Devalis, on 30 November 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

It is not that the Cicada cannot be a scout hunter, but Jenners and Commandos can usually out turn a Cicada and present a smaller target than the Cicada presents to them. With the ECM addition coming on line soon, I can see the relevant Cicada variant acting like a anti-scout/kill-support/Anti-Missile/quick-response platform. Plus, with ECM, you will be almost immune to streaks, yourself.

Good call. I'll stick to support for now, and then try out the ECM once it comes out. I will just have to figure what to remove to make way for it.

[Plavis]

I own 3 cicadas, all of them are fit for killing light mechs fast, ussaly they will runaway after the first alpha from 6 medium pulse lasers, my other cicada packs 4 machinegun and 1 er ppc this usualy leg them very quick, my 3rd cicada packs 4 medium pulse 1 machinegun and this model is the 1 that will be able to fit ecm on the next patch, the first and 3rd cicadas pack xl300 speedtweak, the 2nd uses a 320 xl + speedtweak, i ussaly out run most of the light mechs, and whene chasing them while they escape it make it much easyer to kill them.

Tip for you run in a straight line while they are tailing you then press X that way they end up in front of you braking the ssrm lock and puting then in front of you.

[Indoorsman]

Plavis, on 30 November 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

I own 3 cicadas, all of them are fit for killing light mechs fast, ussaly they will runaway after the first alpha from 6 medium pulse lasers, my other cicada packs 4 machinegun and 1 er ppc this usualy leg them very quick, my 3rd cicada packs 4 medium pulse 1 machinegun and this model is the 1 that will be able to fit ecm on the next patch, the first and 3rd cicadas pack xl300 speedtweak, the 2nd uses a 320 xl + speedtweak, i ussaly out run most of the light mechs, and whene chasing them while they escape it make it much easyer to kill them.

Tip for you run in a straight line while they are tailing you then press X that way they end up in front of you braking the ssrm lock and puting then in front of you.

Whoa, running in a straight line is a bad idea, :-p. I run a Jenner w/2xSRM4, but even if it was just streaks, thanks for the free backshot w/lasers.

[Plavis]

as a cicada all my armor are in my legs and back, its very rare i get hit from frontal attaks

[RFMarine]

try upgrading the engine on the cicada. speed is armor

[RedrumnCoke]

I think Indoorsman has given the best general advice thus far because it made me reanalyze my role as a Cicada. Instead of primarily being a scout, I am primarily a fast response support unit and only secondarily (if no other lights present) a scout. Just got down playing a few rounds that went better. I would start by looking at our team to see if we had lights. If yes, I would hang back and advance with everyone else, then run around assisting where help was needed. If no lights, then I would scout, later returning to a support role once we knew where the enemy was.

[Indoorsman]

RedrumnCoke, on 30 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

I think Indoorsman has given the best general advice thus far because it made me reanalyze my role as a Cicada. Instead of primarily being a scout, I am primarily a fast response support unit and only secondarily (if no other lights present) a scout. Just got down playing a few rounds that went better. I would start by looking at our team to see if we had lights. If yes, I would hang back and advance with everyone else, then run around assisting where help was needed. If no lights, then I would scout, later returning to a support role once we knew where the enemy was.

Glad it works for ya, good work.

[RedrumnCoke]

Plavis, on 30 November 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

as a cicada all my armor are in my legs and back, its very rare i get hit from frontal attaks

My leg armor is indeed maxed out. I'm actually trying your idea right now as I do notice we get hit a lot from behind as we're running back to cover. I'm not ready to put more armor in the back than I have in the front, but I did make them equal and will see how that goes.

[ICEFANG13]

In closed beta I tried out the Cicada. You have to remember that 6 medium lasers does as much damage as a gausscat does, if you hold it on the target. I personally never had problems with keeping my sights on target on lights, so when I did it, I just blew the crud out of them. I also used a TAG as a laser sight (when I saw he X I knew I was gonna hit). I think you may have too many small lasers, and not enough firepower. Light on light (or Cicada), its really important to watch how you and the enemy moves. It matters less what weapons you have, and more on trying to keep yourself/put them in a bad position. For any 5 or 6 laser builds, I think the Cicada would be better than the Jenner-F, and I think it compares really fine against the D and K.

Streak Commandos are worth fighting, they just die when you fire at them. Watch how they move, and go for the good shot. Not running SSRMs gives you an edge when torso twisting, you can let your little shield arms take some abuse, and then turn again and hit, the Commando has to face you constantly, and they have very low armor.

Being a hit and run, or adding DPS to teammates is also really helpful one a 6ML build, its simple and effective, but if you are heaving trouble with lights, you could try chainfiring, or if you want the more powerful, harder, put them in 3 weapon groups and chainfire those (1 fires 2, 2 fires 2, 3 fires 2, then you can fire forever, and they can't avoid all the damage).

What size engine is that? Although there are benefits to not running the biggest, personally I'm a go big or go home on light mechs. I would run the XL340? Biggest right?

[GoGo Yubari]

Also, to reiterate, do not ever run away in a straight line. Instant death sentence.

[Garth Erlam]

Aim for their arms/legs. You can take a whole lot more SSRM damage to your entire Mech than they can to arms and legs. I regularly beat Jenners in 'duels' by focussing damage outside of their centre mass. They lose an arm - you've got a very easy shot at their side torso (and since there's a 99% change they have XL, this will kill them.)
Also, since Jenners bob about, shooting their arms often 'passes through' (as they move) to their legs.

And to be clear, a 6 ML Cicada might sound like 'a Jenner without jumpjets' but it also has: 1) more armour, and 2) NINETEEN double heatsinks, versus a Jenners fourteen or so. It makes a HUGE difference.

[ICEFANG13]

I know that Garth just said that, but I'm going to disagree. If they have a weakness in their arms or legs, then it makes sense to hit them, but personally, I almost never get in those areas enough to matter. People focus on the torso. The torso is a better target as well for a few reasons:

1 its a large target, its easier to hit than the rest of the Jenner or Commando
2 because of its size and importance, my torso is consistently the weakest part of my mech. In fact, I've reduced my arm to 1 armor, and it's remained for a majority of matches.
3 your problem is with their streaks, and that means they are facing you, making the target even bigger and consistent
4 if they turn away, in a Jenner, you can easily still hit the torso because how much it sticks out.
5 if they run away (as they shouldn't run straight away), other than the other points, it will be easier to remove the back armor and continue what you have done, than take out a shoulder
6 if they don't use an XL (which is uncommon and generally not good), this won't work at all
7 the combined armor of the shoulder and arm is probably about the same of the core, but has no advantage. They can lose the arm, but still be live, where leaving them with no armor in the core leaves them a lot more vulnerable.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out a decent way to run the Cicada since it was added. The math behind it says you can't run it like a Jenner if you are trying to match speed (you gain a slight bit of protection in areas the Jenner didn't care about in the first place), because not only does the Jenner have a better profile (and MW4 Uller-esque hit box issues), and the advantage of arm based lasers (which don't suffer convergence issues like projectiles) but you gain practically nothing in switching up for 5 tons.

So I decided to try running it like its successor the Strider (and how it was run in MW4). Strap a Standard Engine in it, and mount 3 LL (or if you don't like that, run the 6 ML and put a bigger engine in). It benefits from the Standard Engine as far as damage goes (it also makes it an easier target, but meh) because the side torsos are so large compared to the Jenner. Not to mention if you lose a side torso, you only lose 1/3 of your firepower compared to most designs that may lose half if not more of their firepower.

Simple answer, like someone else said, don't run it like a Jenner, because the Jenner simply outclasses it, instead run it as an interceptor/light skirmisher, somewhat similar to how the hunchbacks of old used to run. How effective it truly is in this role, not really sure, but it at least is decent and somewhat unique to the Cicada.

Edited by majora incarnate, 30 November 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

A Cicada with the max engine moves the exact same speed as the Jenner with the biggest, the engine also weights 5 more exactly, so the becomes the same as the Jenner, but can ignore armor in the arms, making it stronger, and has more heat sinks in the engine, as Garth said. Technically, the Jenner-F is completely inferior to the Cicada (with 6 energy hard points), except in size matchups, and the Jenner can move its arms.

EDIT also the Cicada has a larger hit area, but less torso focus, so its pretty similar.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 30 November 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ICEFANG13, on 30 November 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

A Cicada with the max engine moves the exact same speed as the Jenner with the biggest, the engine also weights 5 more exactly, so the becomes the same as the Jenner, but can ignore armor in the arms, making it stronger, and has more heat sinks in the engine, as Garth said. Technically, the Jenner-F is completely inferior to the Cicada (with 6 energy hard points), except in size matchups, and the Jenner can move its arms.

EDIT also the Cicada has a larger hit area, but less torso focus, so its pretty similar.

Basically, math-wise, the Cicada gains a slight bit of internal HP and a slight boost to critical sections through armor (though both have around the same amount) and a single DHS (both in total, and that can be stuck in engine), but lacks JJs, Arm movement (which can be handy), and skinnier/smaller profile that the Jenner enjoys. Thus why I say the JR7-F is technically better, that smaller profile is highly advantageous (the profile difference is larger than most people give credit), more so than the slight boost in protection and the single extra HS.