253 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

glad to see the old "My teams tactics didn't take into account (insert new tech here), and we got spanked" therefore (insert new tech here) must be broken and OP threads are alive and well.

Just sorta amazed to see a BWC member doing it. This is (finally) ecm being implemented in a somewhat believable and usable fashion. I played all day yesterday, and my W/L, and K/Dr remained pretty much the same as before.

I think you nailed the "counter" for it in your own comment about Streak Cats.. the unit that has the hobbled Catapult simply needs to focus fire the Raven/Commando/Cicada. Then you face a foe with one less effective, and your LRMs are back in business.

I for one am just happy to see anything that'll p1ss in streakcat pilots cheerios!

I give it about a week, most people and tactics will adapt, and then aside from a few happy souls who just want to solo rambo everything (and no sir, I am not calling you one), it will be become a non issue.

Anyhow, I think what I am basically saying is instead of kneejerk nerf/buffs (haven't we had enough yoyo-ing?) let's get a little more representative sampling before declaring something broken. It might indeed be broken, and I just had a good run. Or maybe it's not and you and your guys had a bad one?

So far the only things I can pretty much categorically "stamp" as broken are PPCs, DHS and Streaks (all really needing minor, simple yet for some reason, stubbornly ignored, tweaks). Maybe ECM ends up on this list too, but I have not really noticed it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 December 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[Viper69]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

If you are going to speak for me, at least use what I say and not interject your own words as my thoughts.

I don't need a 'shield'. I suggest a balance to a mechanic that I feel is broken. That appears to have negatively affected your sensibilities. That result, however, is not of my doing and is all you.

No you suggested that a friendly mech peeling off to defend you and deal with the enemy insurgent was not a wise thing (paraphrasing) That is my point. The only way to reliably deal with a mech is to destroy it. If an atlas wades in front of you, do you stand toe to toe with it, or do you request help? I dont understand the difference between asking for help with an assault mech and asking for help with a ECM based mech. The game is a team based game, they are sacrificing one of their team to keep you busy, draw one more of your mechs over to take him out while you launch missiles down range.

[Raso]

OR maybe rather than boating 6 LRM launchers people should learn to incorporate other weapons into their builds.

[Dukov Nook]

Raso, on 05 December 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

OR maybe rather than boating 6 LRM launchers people should learn to incorporate other weapons into their builds.

the founders cat has only 2 missile hard points...

No one fears 2 medium lasers, which is about all the room you have left once you put 2 LRM 20's with artemis on a cat.

But sure. I guess we should introduce other tech that negates weapons. Let's put in laser jamming. I'm sure that would go over just as well.

Edited by Dukov Nook, 05 December 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

Bguk, on 05 December 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

A friendly ECM can counter an enemy ECM. Toggle it with 'j' by default. "But they have one more than our team!!111111!!!!1!!" Then use a different tactic to take em down.

Amazingly enough, condescension isn't very persuasive. I wasn't saying ECM is god mode, I wasn't saying that you can't kill them, I said that it removes the only in game intel sharing mechanics, and that that PART of it is too much.

[Viper69]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

the founders cat has only 2 missile hard points...

No one fears 2 medium lasers, which is about all the room you have left once you put 2 LRM 20's with artemis on a cat.

But sure. I guess we should introduce other tech that negates weapons. Let's put in laser jamming. I'm sure that would go over just as well.

They are giving PPCs a magical power to short circuit Gauss rifles temporarily.

Also can you fit two medium pulses on your founder cat? Just asking, I have not used mine yet. How about 2 large pulses, and an LRM 15 rack and an SRM 6 rack?

[Dukov Nook]

Viper69, on 05 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

They are giving PPCs a magical power to short circuit Gauss rifles temporarily.

Also can you fit two medium pulses on your founder cat? Just asking, I have not used mine yet. How about 2 large pulses, and an LRM 15 rack and an SRM 6 rack?

If I'm going for a setup like that, why not just go in an atlas and add a gauss?

[Viper69]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

If I'm going for a setup like that, why not just go in an atlas and add a gauss?

I dont know. You said founders catapult I listed what you could put on it. Some things are good for damage even under ECM coverage and you have the LRM for out of ECM coverage indirect fire. Just trying to place well rounded ideas on your catapult is all my friend.

[shabowie]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

That sounds like a rather frustrating basketball game, doesn't it.

My only hope is this will end basketball as a sport in the United States as I can't stand the game... Wait a minute what the Hell are we talking about?

[Garth Erlam]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

the founders cat has only 2 missile hard points...

No one fears 2 medium lasers, which is about all the room you have left once you put 2 LRM 20's with artemis on a cat.

But sure. I guess we should introduce other tech that negates weapons. Let's put in laser jamming. I'm sure that would go over just as well.

Or, and stay with me here, you put on four medium lasers and 2 LRM 15's with artemis.

Also there's a non tech item that completely negates laser damage - we call it a 'hill' and you can stand behind it and fire LRMs right over it

[Kilgore]

The first page had all of these Nike shoe analogies, and being able to shoot or not shoot a basketball. What about Adidas, or mechs that don't get ECM? If the game consists of a battle to see who brought the most pairs of Nike shoes, then the pairs of Adidas won't even be laced up.

The game shouldn't be a contest to see who brought the most ECMs anymore than it should be a contest to see who brought the most LRM boats.

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Or, and stay with me here, you put on four medium lasers and 2 LRM 15's with artemis.

Also there's a non tech item that completely negates laser damage - we call it a 'hill' and you can stand behind it and fire LRMs right over it

Sorry, this is not right.

You can't do that because the other team brought too many Atlas D-DCs, and so you can't hold a target long enough to use those LRMs.

[Jman5]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Or, and stay with me here, you put on four medium lasers and 2 LRM 15's with artemis.

Also there's a non tech item that completely negates laser damage - we call it a 'hill' and you can stand behind it and fire LRMs right over it

Stay strong Garth. A lot of us do like ECM in its present state. Realistically we wont know for a couple weeks if there really is a need for balance tweaks.

[Joseph Mallan]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Or, and stay with me here, you put on four medium lasers and 2 LRM 15's with artemis.

Also there's a non tech item that completely negates laser damage - we call it a 'hill' and you can stand behind it and fire LRMs right over it

You and I should have drinks one night Garth. i don't think we'd ever stop laughing. You are one snarky SOB. I like that in people!

[Felix]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Or, and stay with me here, you put on four medium lasers and 2 LRM 15's with artemis.

Also there's a non tech item that completely negates laser damage - we call it a 'hill' and you can stand behind it and fire LRMs right over it

I always love it when Devs dont give a **** about their game

Question, I dont want to bother reading through the rules, am I allowed to sell my founders account to a rube new player to recoup my losses on this game?

[Viper69]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Or, and stay with me here, you put on four medium lasers and 2 LRM 15's with artemis.

Also there's a non tech item that completely negates laser damage - we call it a 'hill' and you can stand behind it and fire LRMs right over it

I think his nemesis the Raven can stand behind the hill too though right?

I still think the best way to deal with the little Raven is to kill it fast, cleanse it with fire and move on.

I had a horrible match and we lost like scroats against 5 ECM ravens, a DDC atlas ECM and a SRM cat and Jenner. That was painful. But it will be till weight balancing is in but then it will probably only limit max tonnage not minimum tonnage.

[Mavairo]

You could put 2 LRM15s on, and dump your 2 MLs for 2 LLs.

That tends to make people alot more leery to attack your catapult all by their lonesome.

You could also, since apparently you don't believe in supporting your LRM boats, move down to LRm10s, and add 2 MLs, with 2 LLs, and act as fire support for your other LRM boat.

That gives you full fight duration ammunition store capability, and some teeth incase someone comes to play with you. I can't begin to tell you how many cicadas and ravens I've popped with that loadout. And that was before ECM gave them more incentive to be used.

I call that last setup the Pug Hero Fire Support Founder Cat.

in premade it's less necessary and less useful, because most teams are you know smart enough to actually support their lrm boats incase someone gets tricksy and comes over to shank the lrm boats. But the first setup works like a champ, in premade fights even.

Edited by Mavairo, 05 December 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Stormur Herra]

ECM is totally balanced. My KDR shot up to 6-8 last night because I got that much better at the game overnight. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Egomane]

Felix, on 05 December 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Question, I dont want to bother reading through the rules, am I allowed to sell my founders account to a rube new player to recoup my losses on this game?

No, you are not allowed to do that.

[Fate 6]

aspect, on 05 December 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

It'll stop soon, I hope.

My impression of the ECM feedback: "ECM is unbalanced because the enemy team had more ECM's than my team did!"

Honestly, that is a perfectly good explanation of why ECM is broken. If your team has less ECMs, you are likely to lose. It's 1.5 tons that can completely change a game, not just make it slightly different.

I am pretty much forced to use 6 SRMs on my A1 right now. I'm enjoying 90 damage alpha strikes, but I hate not having any other options. I feel like I can't even run any of my mechs with streaks at the moment, and I've stopped purchasing mechs with missile slots. That's not a good state of gameplay.

[verybad]

Then why aren't your ECM carrying mechs providing ECCM?

It may be harder to provide LRM boat support now with ECM in the game, but it's not like it's limited to one team.

All this means now is that LRMs aren't the easiest weapon in the game to use to rack up lots of kills.I've stayed away from LRMs and Gauss because they've both been OP in this game.

You can still use LRMs, just takes some more coordination to get indirect fire out of them.

Hold me while I dry my tears.

The A1 has been running amok over all the other mechs in this game. To bad.

Edited by verybad, 05 December 2012 - 10:28 AM.