18 replies to this topic

[Torrix]

Yes, I do know that the Clans are a good ways off even after the main game starts

That being said, and I'm sure I can't speak for probably most people, but I *loved* it when I played as an Elemental way back in MW2 Mercs in the NBT league. My clan actively practiced with them and there actually were times (remember, 2 v 2 battles) when we faced an enemy and we had elementals with our TO&E for a planet where we actually won the whole 2 v 2 against mechs but at the least we usually (probably 40-50% chance if lighter heavies or lighter enemy mechs...of course back then PPCs were slow moving energy balls too) where we could take out at least one of them before dying.

Now, I realize this might end up bringing in the question of Aerotech, and mechanized armor etc., and I'm really not trying to do that. The bottom line is, I actually had a great deal of fun as an elemental (even though our life expectancy sucked hehe) and they are an integral part of the Clans ground forces (I would even say heck, if elementals were ever to be allowed, then let the IS have their armored infantry sooner than canon year).

I guess what I'm saying is, would anyone even be interested in having Elementals besides me? They'd be extremely hard to hit and VERY fast but also extremely fragile. They'd also be the absolute best at recon due to their size alone. A star of elementals could have a very good shot against a light lance, at the very least able to take out a couple of mechs before wiping, but a very skilled Elemental star could actually take out a light lance with good movement and use of cover.

This is predicated on me not knowing how clans/teams/units will be allowed to fill their forces up. Will there be a max number of mechs for a unit or will that all be based on how many the pilot personally owns, etc.

Finally, yes, this is mostly a theoretical discussion just because I had such a great time with them in MW2M, and I love them in the novels. If this game takes off like we all hope it will, I hope PGI will put in Elementals AND Aerotech, expand the max allowable amount of players in battle etc, even let us break our banks and get dropships (yes, I'm out of control, stop me, stop me now!)

[neodym]

I say yes,devs say nope.... sad but true,they dont have that much people working on it and they concentrate on mechs,but when I think about it making two power armors wouldnt really take more than than making single mech becose their so small

funny thing would be if you could summon/call little swarm of elementals NPC that would aid you in battle,like some hot drop from dropship for money or something

Edited by neodym, 05 May 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[pursang]

MechWarrior.

The keyword here is:

MechWarrior.

You want infantry and fighters? Go play BF3.

[Torrix]

pursang, on 05 May 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

MechWarrior.

The keyword here is:

MechWarrior.

You want infantry and fighters? Go play BF3.

It's a topic for discussion bud, no need to get ignorant and rude. Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries was MECHWARRIOR as well, and Elementals were in it. I was also talking about a point in the future of the game, when having been successful and growing consistently, perhaps people would like it (or dislike it) added to the game... and hey why not discuss it?.

In BATTLETECH, the overall UNIVERSE in which Mechwarrior takes place, Elementals are very much a part of it. If you didn't like the thread, you could have not dropped in your penny. Your reply wasn't worth 2 cents.

[Nicole Metal]

Hey man if you want a disscussion on elementals look at my thread through my profile called "Elementals??????" was a big hit a few months ago but i brought up a few possibliities.

[Volthorne]

Torrix, on 05 May 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

It's a topic for discussion bud, no need to get ignorant and rude. Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries was MECHWARRIOR as well, and Elementals were in it. I was also talking about a point in the future of the game, when having been successful and growing consistently, perhaps people would like it (or dislike it) added to the game... and hey why not discuss it?.

In BATTLETECH, the overall UNIVERSE in which Mechwarrior takes place, Elementals are very much a part of it. If you didn't like the thread, you could have not dropped in your penny. Your reply wasn't worth 2 cents.

Let's totally add the zippy little (And I mean LITTLE. Do you know how bloody hard Elementals would be to see?!?!) ******** so that a whole company can drop and decimate the legit 'mechs without much hassle.

MechWarrior is a real-time sim of BattleTech. That doesn't mean you have to incorporate EVERY idea. Otherwise we'd be playing BattleTech Online.

[pursang]

Torrix, on 05 May 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

It's a topic for discussion bud, no need to get ignorant and rude. Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries was MECHWARRIOR as well, and Elementals were in it. I was also talking about a point in the future of the game, when having been successful and growing consistently, perhaps people would like it (or dislike it) added to the game... and hey why not discuss it?.

In BATTLETECH, the overall UNIVERSE in which Mechwarrior takes place, Elementals are very much a part of it. If you didn't like the thread, you could have not dropped in your penny. Your reply wasn't worth 2 cents.

I'm quite aware that it's a "topic for discussion", however considering that this is probably the 10th "topic for discussion" about the very same thing, something tells me you didn't even bother to search before posting, thus wasting our time here - talk about ignorance and rudeness on your part!

MechWarrior is based on BattleTech, they are not one and the same. There are some very key differences between the two franchises. Elementals (and armored infantry in general) are a very small part of said universe. Here's something to consider: Any resources and time taken away from developing the core of the game i.e. 'Mech on 'Mech combat to develop trivial things that you want in the game is time and resources that can't be made back. I want a 'MechWarrior game with the very best in 'Mech vs. 'Mech combat - I don't want some subpar combined-arms game that no one will end up liking. You want armor and other vehicles in this game? Go and play MW:LL; I've heard it was fairly good.

Aside from that, I couldn't care less about your opinion of my opinion, nor how many "cents" you think it's worth. You've wasted my time here, and the time of many other people. And that deserves no less then a verbal thrashing on my part.

"Ignorant and rude" indeed.

[Vollstrecker]

Torrix, on 05 May 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Yes, I do know that the Clans are a good ways off even after the main game starts

That being said, and I'm sure I can't speak for probably most people, but I *loved* it when I played as an Elemental way back in MW2 Mercs in the NBT league. My clan actively practiced with them and there actually were times (remember, 2 v 2 battles) when we faced an enemy and we had elementals with our TO&E for a planet where we actually won the whole 2 v 2 against mechs but at the least we usually (probably 40-50% chance if lighter heavies or lighter enemy mechs...of course back then PPCs were slow moving energy balls too) where we could take out at least one of them before dying.

Now, I realize this might end up bringing in the question of Aerotech, and mechanized armor etc., and I'm really not trying to do that. The bottom line is, I actually had a great deal of fun as an elemental (even though our life expectancy sucked hehe) and they are an integral part of the Clans ground forces (I would even say heck, if elementals were ever to be allowed, then let the IS have their armored infantry sooner than canon year).

I guess what I'm saying is, would anyone even be interested in having Elementals besides me? They'd be extremely hard to hit and VERY fast but also extremely fragile. They'd also be the absolute best at recon due to their size alone. A star of elementals could have a very good shot against a light lance, at the very least able to take out a couple of mechs before wiping, but a very skilled Elemental star could actually take out a light lance with good movement and use of cover.

This is predicated on me not knowing how clans/teams/units will be allowed to fill their forces up. Will there be a max number of mechs for a unit or will that all be based on how many the pilot personally owns, etc.

Finally, yes, this is mostly a theoretical discussion just because I had such a great time with them in MW2M, and I love them in the novels. If this game takes off like we all hope it will, I hope PGI will put in Elementals AND Aerotech, expand the max allowable amount of players in battle etc, even let us break our banks and get dropships (yes, I'm out of control, stop me, stop me now!)

Elementals would be a neat force to have at your command (NPC or not), but I hate to point out that Elementals have a low top-speed when you're talking about 'mechs. http://www.sarna.net..._(Battle_Armor)

If they could ride an Omni into battle though, that would be neat.

[Aelos03]

maybe if matches were 12vs12 mechs + elemetals that would be cool to see

[trycksh0t]

As much as I like Elementals, they don't really belong in MWO with the way it is designed. It is being setup around 12 vs. 12 'Mech action, Elementals throw that balance right out the window.

The Clans attributed 5 Elementals to be the equivalent of a single 'Mech (1 'Mech = 1 Point, 5 Elementals = 1 Point). So, while a Star of OmniMechs would be 5 'Mechs, a Star of Elementals is 25 of 'em. For a game setup to run 12 vs. 12 games, incorporating Elementals would require changing it to allow for more players, or having Elementals so unbalanced as to be ridiculous (MW:LL BA comes to mind....) They simply don't fit the current structure of the game.

They also wouldn't be very useful in a reconaissance or scouting role. Elementals top out at a smidge over 32 kph, the walking speed of an Atlas, and have very limited sensor and communication equipment (as evidenced by Clan Wolf's Headhunter model, that had to drop the missile pack to incorporate a sensor suite).

That being said, I'd love to see a combined arms BattleTech game in the future, but right now I'd prefer of PGI stayed more focused with MWO. Let 'em start rolling in money, then blow our minds with a full-fledged, 200 player combined arms sim.

Edited by trycksh0t, 05 May 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[Monky]

I just don't see elementals being anything more than a novelty...

You would probably have to have a star of elementals to be effectively capable of taking down a mech without being reduced to scrap, which takes up 5 players... which means either imbalanced teams in terms of fewer mechs per 12 on 12 match, or imbalanced teams where you have extra players added in as elementals, putting more stress on servers to keep all those connections going from one match.

I'm not against the diversity argument, and I'm sure they can be fun in their own right (I loved Tribes back in the day, which was essentially armored infantry warfare with lasers and jetpacks - very similar to battlearmor), but you have to work it in to the framework of a game that focuses around mechs in a multiplayer setting.

On top of this, there isn't a lot of flexibility in battlearmor. You have a 1 or 2 shot SRM launcher, a laser that can be swapped for a machinegun, some jumpjets, a battle claw, and.... that's it. It just doesn't seem like it would be enticing for a strictly multiplayer environment.

Edited by monky, 05 May 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

its a common misconception that elementals are hard to hit. think about it, its 12 feet tall, 7 feet wide, its not that hard to spray it with machine gun arrays or small lasers and burn it to ash.

in mwll they are a pain to hit due to lag abuse cause them to warp all over on people with horrid connections. as soon as someone with good stable internet plays ba on there they get vaporized all the time, i shoot them out of the sky when they try to fly around.

and its mechwarrior online, as in battlemechs, elementals are infantry, that would be combined arms where yould have to have tanks and aeros too.

ild rather just have a good mech vs mech game as the gods of developement intend for us.

ps, just set your anti missile system to target infantry and watch the turret mop them up.

Edited by LordDeathStrike, 05 May 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[Togg Bott]

200 players? HAHAHAHA. i want EvE online style Battles . 1000+ combatants

[Zakatak]

pursang, on 05 May 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

MechWarrior.

The keyword here is:

MechWarrior.

You want infantry and fighters? Go play BF3.

Make sure to be more of an ******* about it next time.

Edited by Zakatak, 05 May 2012 - 09:57 PM.

[Torrix]

pursang, on 05 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I'm quite aware that it's a "topic for discussion", however considering that this is probably the 10th "topic for discussion" about the very same thing, something tells me you didn't even bother to search before posting, thus wasting our time here - talk about ignorance and rudeness on your part!

MechWarrior is based on BattleTech, they are not one and the same. There are some very key differences between the two franchises. Elementals (and armored infantry in general) are a very small part of said universe. Here's something to consider: Any resources and time taken away from developing the core of the game i.e. 'Mech on 'Mech combat to develop trivial things that you want in the game is time and resources that can't be made back. I want a 'MechWarrior game with the very best in 'Mech vs. 'Mech combat - I don't want some subpar combined-arms game that no one will end up liking. You want armor and other vehicles in this game? Go and play MW:LL; I've heard it was fairly good.

Aside from that, I couldn't care less about your opinion of my opinion, nor how many "cents" you think it's worth. You've wasted my time here, and the time of many other people. And that deserves no less then a verbal thrashing on my part.

"Ignorant and rude" indeed.

YOU waste your time, no one else. Not interested in a topic? THEN DON'T READ IT AND ESPECIALLY DON'T POST IN IT.

Damn, hard to get through to you it seems. Have you YET read what I said? I stated, quite clearly, that "AFTER THE GAME WAS OPERATING SUCCESSFULLY AND SMOOTHLY" ..."..at some time in the future" ..."theoretical discussion" Did you read any of these words? Did you horrifically misconstrue them to somehow think I was somehow saying I preferred Elementals to mechs or some such? Wow, it seems you did.

I want the very best MECHWARRIOR game I can get and support the devs fully in that endeavor, now with my words and when the game goes live, with my money. THAT comes first, hence all my statements concerning some time in the future. However, unless a game continues to expand when it reaches certain milestones (like "operating successfully and smoothly") then they begin to stagnate, and people begin to leave. If nothing new, not a single new mech gets added to the game but PGI can develop a way to, *for example* enable an additional lance/star to each side for matches, then I would consider that a hugely successful update.

Nobody at any time is saying take critical resources from the main game in order to add Elementals to the game, it's all supposed to be a speculative conversation amongst Mechwarrior enthusiasists. But if you somehow don't think that it's a good thing to, say, 3-4 years down the road, with the game successful and PGI significantly wealthier, trying to actually work on adding new elements to the game (no pun intended) and creating a combined arms game out of MWO, then your narrow view won't ever make you a dev anywhere. If you think the height of game development is a new mech every couple of months and a new map every few months, well, I pity you, and YOU should head back to BF3, because there, you'll get a new map now and then until a year rolls by and then it'll be time to buy a new game.

Keeping an open mind about possible things that CAN be introduced to further advance and expand the game is a good thing, not a bad thing. Having discussions about them is also a good thing.

[Torrix]

trycksh0t, on 05 May 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

As much as I like Elementals, they don't really belong in MWO with the way it is designed. It is being setup around 12 vs. 12 'Mech action, Elementals throw that balance right out the window.

The Clans attributed 5 Elementals to be the equivalent of a single 'Mech (1 'Mech = 1 Point, 5 Elementals = 1 Point). So, while a Star of OmniMechs would be 5 'Mechs, a Star of Elementals is 25 of 'em. For a game setup to run 12 vs. 12 games, incorporating Elementals would require changing it to allow for more players, or having Elementals so unbalanced as to be ridiculous (MW:LL BA comes to mind....) They simply don't fit the current structure of the game.

They also wouldn't be very useful in a reconaissance or scouting role. Elementals top out at a smidge over 32 kph, the walking speed of an Atlas, and have very limited sensor and communication equipment (as evidenced by Clan Wolf's Headhunter model, that had to drop the missile pack to incorporate a sensor suite).

That being said, I'd love to see a combined arms BattleTech game in the future, but right now I'd prefer of PGI stayed more focused with MWO. Let 'em start rolling in money, then blow our minds with a full-fledged, 200 player combined arms sim.

I agree with you. I would want MWO to be a fully realized kickass Mechwarrior game before attempting to add the other elements to the game, but down the road, that is what I hope to see.

[Alkero]

okay Torrix, you get +1 internetz for having to deal with pursuang

[gr0b]

I also preferred Elementals to the larger mechs, I found it required more skill and strategy to play an Elemental then a heavier mech. A lot of the players I would go ageist would focus on hard hitting long range weapons on large slow mechs so if you are small/fast and behind them they are easy prey. It also forces you to use the environment so in urban areas you have an advantage. The satisfaction of taking down an Atlas with a Elementals is great feeling and very humiliating for the opponent.

[Zaro27]

Heh, this kinda reminds me of MWLL. If you wanna see what Elementals are like, give it a shot.