44 replies to this topic

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Iron Harlequin, on 13 May 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

The Hardpoints system of MW:O works.

MW:O Mechlab Footage


The hardpoints system of MW4 blew chunks. Microsoft arbitrarily saying that this section of this mech can only hold a ballistic weapon 2 slots big is bogus. What if i wanted a laser in the section? What if I wanted a larger ballistic weapon?

Well... Unless you are piloting an OmniMech, you should NOT be able to cram whatever you want wherever you want. MW3 allowed too much freedom. With the released footage of MWO's mechlab, I am a little concerned because Paul is able to place weapons and ammunition wherever he wants, just like in MW3. If I remember correctly, He places ammunition for his right-torso AC/5, in his right arm (and he almost put it in the leg). Now what sense is there in using an arm to store your ammunition? Think about it, it would be bulky, thinly armored, and has to be miraculously fed through the joints of the arm into the torso. The same goes for ammo stored in the torso for ACs and missile launchers in the arms, the loading mechanisms make no sense, yet the "open" mechlab freely allows it (and yes I know there are canon 'Mechs suck as the Centurion that have separately-stored ammunition).

Edited by Alaric Wolf Kerensky, 13 May 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[Odanan]

Putting Endo Steel in a mech is like scrapping all internal structure and replacing by another. Is like changing a chassis of a car.

Edited by Odanan, 13 May 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[ice trey]

1) It prevented me from changing 'mechs back into their original canon configurations.

2) When the Mechwarrior 2 and 3 series of games were out, Battletech tabletop was doing just fine, as people who got hooked on those titles were already familiar with the look and feel of the Battletech record sheets thanks to the customization system in the Mechwarrior computer games. When Mechwarrior 4 came out, people got used to the wonky hardpoint system, and when they looked at the Battletech record sheets, they would get alienated and automatically assume the tabletop game was "Bad" because they didn't understand it at first glance.

3) As a measure to prevent optimization and min-maxers from overpowering everyone, it failed outright, and only served to limit the single player experience.

[Corbon Zackery]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 13 May 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Well... Unless you are piloting an OmniMech, you should NOT be able to cram whatever you want wherever you want. MW3 allowed too much freedom. With the released footage of MWO's mechlab, I am a little concerned because Paul is able to place weapons and ammunition wherever he wants, just like in MW3. If I remember correctly, He places ammunition for his right-torso AC/5, in his right arm (and he almost put it in the leg). Now what sense is there in using an arm to store your ammunition? Think about it, it would be bulky, thinly armored, and has to be miraculously fed through the joints of the arm into the torso. The same goes for ammo stored in the torso for ACs and missile launchers in the arms, the loading mechanisms make no sense, yet the "open" mechlab freely allows it (and yes I know there are canon 'Mechs suck as the Centurion that have separately-stored ammunition).

You want a AC Cannon in the arm.

1. you can remove the hands and lower arm from a mech so you can fit a bigger gun on it. example the Warrhammer

2. When ammo explodes it does 1 point per round of ammo so if you put the ammo in the arm with a CASE you lose the arm but not your whole mech.
3. You dont want to put ammo in a leg beacause if it goes boom you cant walk any more.

4. You don't want to put ammo in a CT because you have a Eng. and Gyro in the CT.

5. If you have a IS XL having Ammo in a LT or RT and Boom buy buy Eng.

6. I don't think you want to put ammo in your head mythbusters just proved today that it doesn't make you eject higher in the air.

7. If you can store the ammo in the arm with your cannon that way if you lose the arm with the cannon your not walking around with 200 MG Rounds.

8. If you don't use CASE then 200 hits your R arm, whats left over goes to the RT.and anything left over transfers to your CT.

9. CASE is like a auto eject system so you just lose your arm easy to fix. No CASE I selling scrap metal on the FWL market.

These are all good resions why you should get rid of these hardpoints in mechwarrior.

Thanks

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 13 May 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[Kreisel]

The MWO implementation of the Hardpoint system is MUUUUCH more flexible than MW4. MW4 basically tried to combine hard points and critcal slots into one system, while tossing out half the critcal slots system. So not only were you restricted to 'only this kind of gun can go here' but you were also limited by 'only this big of that kind of weapon can go here.' You got situations where their were enough overall slots of a certain type on the mech for you to put on the weapon combination you wanted... but the way they were blocked out... you couldn't do it, because you had a single slot here, and 3 over there, but large lasers need 2 spots next to each other.

Also, it really killed the point of Omni-mechs. If they had been smart about it and made cannon mechs restricted (but not so much you could't not make cannon varients) and had Omni mechs have more 'omni slots' than... say... a Timber Wolf that can only fit the weapon of your choosing in 2 sets of 2 slots each in the toso, because the arms are energy only and the missile pods are of course, missile only.
Your arm might have 8 slots open, but they were broken up into say: 2 Omni, 3 Energy another 3 Ballistic. Or something more silly like 4 energy, gap, another 4 energy.

MWO way of handling things is looks muuuuch better and makes a lot of sense for IS mechs. The fact weapon size isn't handled as part of the hard point makes them much better. if it's not Omni, it should be restricted, and it would honestly make the Omni-mechs really special in the way they are supposed to be when we can get our hands on the if done right. The Concern about the MWO hard point system is they may try an apply it two strictly to the omni-mechs. But in MWO if say, the left and right torso have 2 ballistic, 2 energy and 3 missle hard points in them, that is verrry flexible, suddenly you can fit almost anything you want in that location given enough weight and critcal space. Omni-mechs can be implemented very easily by simply given locations on the Mech an almost silly large number of hard points of each type at each location. You can do this without overpowering a mech because they still have the same number of crital slots to contend with no matter how how many hard points you give them. While in the mech warrior 4 design, to do something similar meant certain mechs would actually have to have MORE space to put weapons in overall than others of the same weight/class.