33 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

Fist off... this is a bit lengthy so bare with me. But if you think about it, it makes the most sense from a tactical point of view.




There are a lot of threads out there about how OP ECM is and I got to thinking while at work because just last night, my unit and I were discussing ways to combat ECM.
And once I got to sit down and think to myself, it was very clear how to combat ECM.

What do we know about ECM. Well... It makes life difficult because it effectively disrupts every other advanced system in the game in some way. If I get into a fight with a mech that has ECM, I cannot effectively relay targeting info or sensor info back to my team right? Yes and no.

I may not be able to relay targeting info back by pressing ® or even have that info show up on my radar as the little red dot for my team but there is still one thing I can do. That is vocalize with my team on where I'm at, what I'm doing, who I'm fighting and or where the enemy is.

Wait... how do I do that? Sorry for all the new guys that don't like to or don't want to use online voice chat systems but this is how. If I'm fighting a mech or a few mech and I'm being jammed by ECM so I can't relay back sensor or targeting info, you better believe I'm going to be letting my team know where I'm at and a grid reference.

I know a lot of the new players don't have a feel yet for the maps and or don't know all the grid locations of all the maps but some of us, and more-so, those of us that have been here from day 1 should know these maps by now. We should be able to call out a point on these maps without even having to look at the command map or radar. The player base has gotten used to having all the advanced systems like Tag, Narc, Artemis, Streaks and BAP. All these things can be effected by ECM.

LRM guys are screaming that ECM is OP because they can't use their LRMs anymore. WRONG! Sure you can. Get out there and spot for yourself. You don't always have to rely on a spotter to relay targeting info back or you don't need Artemis to have that faster advanced locking. Does having these things make it easier for you? Sure, but that's the problem... everyone wants easy mode. You can still lock your LRMs on any mech if you would just get out there and get line of sight for yourselves and not sit and blind fire because someone or some advanced targeting computer is doing the work for you. We know Tag can disrupt a mech with ECM right?

So add a Tag to you LRM mech and self Tag. Again... you have to get clear line of sight and NOT HIDE but it can be done.
There is two things Tag can still do that we cannot stop.


1. It gives its user and those close to the user a virtual shield from radar and other systems and forces us on the other end to use our OWN EYES more than relying on our computers and radar. This will allow ECM uses to go VIRTUALY undetected but not VISUALLY people. A lot of ECM Ravens and Commands have used the new ECM to run for base cap because everyone is too busy looking at their radar or relying on the advanced computer systems to pick up the enemy before you can see them. How about use your eyes for a change to spot the enemy? If you know the maps and spot an enemy that you otherwise can't pick up on radar, vocalize and call out its position to your team.


2. If we are close to that ECM user, he can effectively stop us from using any advanced targeting to fight him.
So what do you do? You dont worry about targeting. Your lasers, Ballistics and even Srms dont rely on advanced targeting. USE THEM!!

I bet you if we stop relying on all the advanced stuff in the game and did not use it as much as we have gotten used to and rely more on your own vision and get on some type of online voice chat system so you can speak to your team to relay info... you'll see just how fast ECM is not a priority, everyone has to use it system.

Before we had Artemis, BAP, Tag, Narc and so on... we did fine. We found ways to deal with the LRM boats, Gauss and Laser boats. Go back to the basics, rely more on your team, use your own real given senses and stop relying on all the fluff systems and i bet your game will be a lot more fun.

I tested this last night with some friends and on our team we did not take any ECM and any of the other advanced HELP systems and we won the 3 games we tested this on. The only thing we had to worry about was the enemy ECM mech using it to stay virtually cloaked for a base cap. And we made sure that didnt happen because we anticipated it and stopped it.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 05 December 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

When you said "Old School," I thought you did what I did... and just brought out the old -4G.
AC/20 > ECM


I'm moving this to the General Guides section of the forums, since it's presented as an informational piece. Feel free to keep it going. Remember when going to the high-ground just made you a target for snipers...? Well, not anymore...

[Bishop Steiner]

I pretty much use LOS weapons anyhow.

LRMS, while very useful when deployed right, bore me to tears, as the only real skill involved is staying out of danger, while your scouts and skirmishers do the hard work. (It's why the D-DC makes such a sensible Command mech, if the Pilot isn't knee deep brawling it is a lot easier to watch and control the battle-line)

And while a few of my mechs have a streak pack or two, I use those primarily for swatting Lights. Now that I am running 2 Large lasers and an LB-10X on my 2X, they are not as needed, as those lasers are good at sweeping the legs of Lights. And my Ilya, with dual LB-X/Dual Large Lasers, don't notice ecm at all. (or my 1X, or my Wang, Founders Hunchie, Founders Atlas, etc...)

I have been pugging it the last few days, and my W/L and K/Dr are staying jsut about where they were pre-patch. Only people I really see having an issue is the LRM boat crowd and StreaKCats.

And I could give 2 t-u-rds less what StreakCat drivers think.

[TIEZINE]

Yoseful Mallad, on 05 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Fist off... this is a bit lengthy so bare with me. But if you think about it, it makes the most sense from a tactical point of view.




There are a lot of threads out there about how OP ECM is and I got to thinking while at work because just last night, my unit and I were discussing ways to combat ECM.
And once I got to sit down and think to myself, it was very clear how to combat ECM.

What do we know about ECM. Well... It makes life difficult because it effectively disrupts every other advanced system in the game in some way. If I get into a fight with a mech that has ECM, I cannot effectively relay targeting info or sensor info back to my team right? Yes and no.

I may not be able to relay targeting info back by pressing ® or even have that info show up on my radar as the little red dot for my team but there is still one thing I can do. That is vocalize with my team on where I'm at, what I'm doing, who I'm fighting and or where the enemy is.

Wait... how do I do that? Sorry for all the new guys that don't like to or don't want to use online voice chat systems but this is how. If I'm fighting a mech or a few mech and I'm being jammed by ECM so I can't relay back sensor or targeting info, you better believe I'm going to be letting my team know where I'm at and a grid reference.

I know a lot of the new players don't have a feel yet for the maps and or don't know all the grid locations of all the maps but some of us, and more-so, those of us that have been here from day 1 should know these maps by now. We should be able to call out a point on these maps without even having to look at the command map or radar. The player base has gotten used to having all the advanced systems like Tag, Narc, Artemis, Streaks and BAP. All these things can be effected by ECM.

LRM guys are screaming that ECM is OP because they can't use their LRMs anymore. WRONG! Sure you can. Get out there and spot for yourself. You don't always have to rely on a spotter to relay targeting info back or you don't need Artemis to have that faster advanced locking. Does having these things make it easier for you? Sure, but that's the problem... everyone wants easy mode. You can still lock your LRMs on any mech if you would just get out there and get line of sight for yourselves and not sit and blind fire because someone or some advanced targeting computer is doing the work for you. We know Tag can disrupt a mech with ECM right?

So add a Tag to you LRM mech and self Tag. Again... you have to get clear line of sight and NOT HIDE but it can be done.
There is two things Tag can still do that we cannot stop.


1. It gives its user and those close to the user a virtual shield from radar and other systems and forces us on the other end to use our OWN EYES more than relying on our computers and radar. This will allow ECM uses to go VIRTUALY undetected but not VISUALLY people. A lot of ECM Ravens and Commands have used the new ECM to run for base cap because everyone is too busy looking at their radar or relying on the advanced computer systems to pick up the enemy before you can see them. How about use your eyes for a change to spot the enemy? If you know the maps and spot an enemy that you otherwise can't pick up on radar, vocalize and call out its position to your team.


2. If we are close to that ECM user, he can effectively stop us from using any advanced targeting to fight him.
So what do you do? You dont worry about targeting. Your lasers, Ballistics and even Srms dont rely on advanced targeting. USE THEM!!

I bet you if we stop relying on all the advanced stuff in the game and did not use it as much as we have gotten used to and rely more on your own vision and get on some type of online voice chat system so you can speak to your team to relay info... you'll see just how fast ECM is not a priority, everyone has to use it system.

Before we had Artemis, BAP, Tag, Narc and so on... we did fine. We found ways to deal with the LRM boats, Gauss and Laser boats. Go back to the basics, rely more on your team, use your own real given senses and stop relying on all the fluff systems and i bet your game will be a lot more fun.

I tested this last night with some friends and on our team we did not take any ECM and any of the other advanced HELP systems and we won the 3 games we tested this on. The only thing we had to worry about was the enemy ECM mech using it to stay virtually cloaked for a base cap. And we made sure that didnt happen because we anticipated it and stopped it.

I know the squad I wanna go to when I get a system that can run this game! THATS HOW ITS DONE!

[Ginga121]

To counter an ECM just get a friendly ECM to switch to counter mode. Alternatively get a TAG.

I pilot a Raven 3L with ECM, TAG and BAP. Still yet to find an ECM mech that I can't help counter. I like to think of myself as a ECM hunter using my own ECM to quietly locate the enemy mechs carrying ECM's and expose them. It's almost like a new role on the Battelfield

The problem is here that there isn't a clear instruction on how to switch between Counter and Disrupt modes. If you haven't read the patch notes you might never know how to switch. You could be using an ECM and be completely oblivious to the fact that it can actually counter other ECM's

Edited by Ginga121, 05 December 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Ginga121, on 05 December 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

To counter an ECM just get a friendly ECM to switch to counter mode. Alternatively get a TAG.

I pilot a Raven 3L with ECM, TAG and BAP. Still yet to find an ECM mech that I can't help counter. I like to think of myself as a ECM hunter using my own ECM to quietly locate the enemy mechs carrying ECM's and expose them. It's almost like a new role on the Battelfield

The problem is here that there isn't a clear instruction on how to switch between Counter and Disrupt modes. If you haven't read the patch notes you might never know how to switch. You could be using an ECM and be completely oblivious to the fact that it can actually counter other ECM's

yeah you can counter ECM with another ECM but my point to this thread is that you can counter ECM without having to run ECm yourself. Just play smart and forget about all the flashy advanced systems that ECM can disrupt if youre using them. We dont really need to always have the advanced HELP systems on our mech to win or to be better. Sometimes less is more and less is sometimes better. The best way (in my opinion) to counter ECM is to not give it much to hurt you with.

[Ginga121]

Yoseful Mallad, on 05 December 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

yeah you can counter ECM with another ECM but my point to this thread is that you can counter ECM without having to run ECm yourself. Just play smart and forget about all the flashy advanced systems that ECM can disrupt if youre using them. We dont really need to always have the advanced HELP systems on our mech to win or to be better. Sometimes less is more and less is sometimes better. The best way (in my opinion) to counter ECM is to not give it much to hurt you with.

Fair point.

I prefer to counter EW with EW. Ballistic rounds are more useful hitting bigger, heavier armoured targets... In my opinion of course

Though if you can hit a light mech with AC's... Hats off to you! My aim isn't that good most of the time haha

[Joe Mallad]

Ginga121, on 05 December 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Fair point.

I prefer to counter EW with EW. Ballistic rounds are more useful hitting bigger, heavier armoured targets... In my opinion of course

Though if you can hit a light mech with AC's... Hats off to you! My aim isn't that good most of the time haha

fair enough

[Das Wudone]

nicely said op. ppl just tend to forget that SKILL and USING YOUR BRAIN triumphs over reliance on easy mode lock ons and advanced systems.

Edited by Das Wudone, 05 December 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[MagicHamsta]

Counter ECM by loading up even more weapons.
Then using said weapons to destroy the enemy.

Also one good benefit of the enemy having ECM, you can see when an ECM mech be within 180 meters of you even when you lack the LoS. (as you will be disrupted.)

[Hakkukakt]

hello ... well spoke

that's the final think i come myself after the annonce of ecm come in.

that's few 2 weeks, i'm training to play with no SSRM but using instead SRM2 - 6 on my Cat A1 ...

the radar help a little to find the target, but in the end, that's your eyes that aim the final blow ... it's just annoying you dont have info on the health of your ennemy ...

hum i think normaly the LRM can do a sort of balistic fire no ... so why not use it on 180 - 300 m ? that's a short road beetwen you and your target ... so you dont do a mass dps, but still you help with support rain ^^

[Mordin Ashe]

Yoseful Mallad, on 05 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

LRM guys are screaming that ECM is OP because they can't use their LRMs anymore. WRONG! Sure you can. Get out there and spot for yourself.

So basically any issues LRM boats had were answered by "get someone to scout for yourself" now becomes "scout for yourself and shut up." Well, since LRMs are becoming a direct-fire weapons ... can we at least get MW4: mercs targeting system?

[Hakkukakt]

on the same time ... the ecm is still on test ... i think they will make some tuning on the next patch in futur ...

[Joe Mallad]

Guys... I ran my DDC Atlas last night all night. And while I did have ECM on it, I used ECM only as protection to those guys that wanted to stand off on my team and hit from a distance. I also equipped Tag and BAP on that same Atlas with 3 LRM 5s. While I had to get in the open to see what I was firing at, I was able to hit everything I looked at with my LRMs. Any mech that had ECM, I targeted it with Tag to disrupt it and then hit it with the LRMs because I could then get lock. On top of that once I hit it with tag and disrupted its ECM, my BAP kicked in and allowed me to target him a lot faster so I could get those LRMs down field. And any mech that tried to come at me with or without ECM, was hit with a ER LL and a Gauss. In every match I had 2 to 3 kills with those LRMs and 1 to 2 kills with my ranges ER LL and Gauss combo. I did not die once the whole night. Play smart and ECM can be beaten.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 07 December 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Prosperity Park, on 05 December 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

When you said "Old School," I thought you did what I did... and just brought out the old -4G.
AC/20 > ECM

First thing that popped into my mind as well.

Quote

So add a Tag to you LRM mech and self Tag. Again... you have to get clear line of sight and NOT HIDE but it can be done.]
There is two things Tag can still do that we cannot stop.
]

I've been using a tag laser on my mid range support mechs like my centurion AL sense tag came out. I keep the tag laser for my single LRM15. I don't just use it for the bonus it gives me but I can guide other LRM users on my team with it. It's another indicator that an enemy unit can be focus fired on. Now that ECM is in play I can mark targets for teammates.

The OP's main point of teamwork and being aware of whats going on around you is ultimately the key to handling a potent devise such as ECM. ECM is a strong force multiplier in a match. A player/teams ability to adapt and coordinate will be strongest factor in mitigating that advantage.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 07 December 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[latdheretic]

Yoseful Mallad, on 07 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Guys... I ran my DDC Atlas last night all night. And while I did have ECM on it, I used ECM only as protection to those guys that wanted to stand off on my team and hit from a distance. I also equipped Tag and BAP on that same Atlas with 3 LRM 5s. While I had to get in the open to see what I was firing at, I was able to hit everything I looked at with my LRMs. Any mech that had ECM, I targeted it with Tag to disrupt it and then hit it with the LRMs because I could then get lock. On top of that once I hit it with tag and disrupted its ECM, my BAP kicked in and allowed me to target him a lot faster so I could get those LRMs down field. And any mech that tried to come at me with or without ECM, was hit with a ER LL and a Gauss. In every match I had 2 to 3 kills with those LRMs and 1 to 2 kills with my ranges ER LL and Gauss combo. I did not die once the whole night. Play smart and ECM can be beaten.

The problem is you haven't beaten ECM, you've sold out to it. My issues with ECM as presented, isn't that it can't be beaten, but that it forces you to counter it to be competitive.

[MagicHamsta]

Mordin Ashe, on 07 December 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

So basically any issues LRM boats had were answered by "get someone to scout for yourself" now becomes "scout for yourself and shut up." Well, since LRMs are becoming a direct-fire weapons ... can we at least get MW4: mercs targeting system?

You mean they weren't the direct fire weapons before?
(.-.)
No wonder me own LRM boat was so abnormally effective before ECM & still decent after ECM. (Me would acquire my own LoS & locks.)

[Sandra McCrow]

Oh my god, really?
Finally somebody took pain to say "TALK TO YOUR TEAM MATES MFs!"
This is a good point. This game is about communicating with your team mates for elevating your performance. Yes, it is true, I am sometimes get annoyed with teamless playstyle of my PUG mates and do not take care to talk to people during drop, but every time I see somebody starting to talk - I immediately reply and move to help him.
A simple trick that helps - if you see heat shadows or even visually enemy mechs covered by ecm - report to your team and ask to engage. As soon as you are there - ecm doesn't matter anymore.
ECM actually adds a limitations on your fitting - fit Ssmrs as you please - but make sure you have something that can dish out damage right into enemy face without a lock.

[Cannibal Cat]

An an LRM lover, I use Thermal vision a lot to spot enemy heat signatures. Even if I can't use my LRM's effectively on ECM protected mechs at range (even LOS), I can spot them and try get around them with my LRM Raven-2X, get close enough to hit 'em hard, then get the heck out of Dodge before a counter-strike... This tactic doesn't work so well for my much slower Catapult.

[Wrenchfarm]

I never wanted to missile boat...

Until they said I couldn't.

So tonight I swapped around a few pieces in my beloved CN9-AL and changed it from a laser slinger to a missile pounder. STD 245 engine, LRM15 and LRM5 in RT, 3 MLAS in CT and RA, TAG in RA, 3 tons LRM ammo in the legs, and a Beagle Probe in the LT because why the hell not. Topped off with the target data mod.

It's fantastic. I've been running around at a speedy clip hucking missiles into jerks from mid-range. While sitting back at 999m and relying on friendly spotted locks never appealed to me, maintaining a 250-450m sweet spot where I can flag a mech with TAG and give him a one-two combo of missiles and MLAS is terrific fun. I've been posting huge damage numbers with LRMs while actually playing the game instead of sitting on my duff until a Jenner comes along to ruin my day.

Not sure how the interaction with TAG and ECM works. Sometimes it seems flagging a guy with ECM will let me eventually get a lock at a slower rate, other times ECM can't be defeated. Not sure if it is a multiple overlapping ECM thing, or a range thing (perhaps being within the 180m of ECM umbrella nullifies the TAG). If anyone can shed some light on this I would appreciate it.