69 replies to this topic

[Tilon]

Nauht, on 05 December 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

If you can aim then what are you whining about?

The only reason you'd whine is because of what ECM does - it just made lock on missiles that much more difficult. Easy mode ain't so easy anymore.

But of course you never played a LRM or streakcat amirite?

It makes LRMs not even usable. You can't target at all. I don't even play with LRMs, but that's complete nonsense. Nowhere in Battletech does an ECM completely negate a weapon system like that.

[Hotthedd]

gregsolidus, on 05 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

You assume they're spending money to begin with and that 15% percent of new players are incapable of basic tactics which would in turn mean they wouldn't have stayed anyhow.

If the game is good, eventually they WILL spend real money.
The problem is not with the new players, it is with the game that forces people into running ECM mechs, joining a group, or dying.

[River Walker]

Will Thank you for the try out of MWO OP ,Good luck with what ever game you pick nixed

Edited by River Walker, 05 December 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[Hotthedd]

Nauht, on 05 December 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Lets say he represents 0.1% of players, making his post exactly what it is - irrelevant.

Can't make up figures out of thin air to support your arguments.

You and I can play the what if game all day.

Going by the number of threads on this very topic, I could assume a higher percentage than 15%, but in business, one is taught to assume that for every ONE customer that complains, 10 to 20 are similarly dissatisfied, but do not complain, they just never come back.

[gregsolidus]

Hotthedd, on 05 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

If the game is good, eventually they WILL spend real money.
The problem is not with the new players, it is with the game that forces people into running ECM mechs, joining a group, or dying.

You're still assuming that they will stay even after being unable to surmount something as simple as needing to call out their targets now they aren't glowing blips on a screen.Hell, we can even get people to look in one direction and move in another without getting the developers to go back on their word and add a 3rd person camera.

[Tilon]

For 1.5 tons, you can both completely protect you and friends from a weapon system that uses more than 1.5 tons just to carry ammo, not including the launchers, and it's not counterable except with TAG, which you have to constantly hold on the target.

For 1.5 tons.

Yeah, it's a little broken. Especially since ECM has never completely blocked LRMs before, and it never has. It just blocked INDIRECT LRM FIRE. ECM blocks COMMUNICATION BETWEEN MECHS, it's not supposed to be Magic Cloak™.

Your Mech is still a gigantic hunk of metal. ECM can't prevent a missile from locking onto your ferrous signature. This is why ECM, ELECTRONIC Counter Measures, blocks ELECTRONIC communication and ELECTRONIC targeting measures only.

Quote

You're still assuming that they will stay even after being unable to surmount something as simple as needing to call out their targets now they aren't glowing blips on a screen.

The devs haven't added in game voice chat, you can't 'call out mechs'.

Besides, calling out a mech does nothing for getting past the Invulnerable LRM Force Field™.

Edited by Tilon, 05 December 2012 - 04:53 PM.

[gregsolidus]

Tilon, on 05 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

The devs haven't added in game voice chat, you can't 'call out mechs'.

Besides, calling out a mech does nothing for getting past the Invulnerable LRM Force Field™.

1.Use the chat box
2.Take cover

[Tilon]

gregsolidus, on 05 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

1.Use the chat box
2.Take cover

Yeah, the whole game should revolve around a 1.5 ton piece of equipment. Get real, son. It's going to get nerfed.

Oh, and 'take cover' doesn't apply to what I was saying, which is that ECM makes LRMs useless, which ECM is not supposed to do. It's only supposed to block INDIRECT LRM fire, because INDIRECT fire depends on ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION between mechs, and ECM blocks ELECTRONIC SIGNALS.

I guess ECM now stands for Everything Counter Measures

Edited by Tilon, 05 December 2012 - 04:57 PM.

[gregsolidus]

It takes longer to lock on.... OH GOD WHY!?!

[Tilon]

gregsolidus, on 05 December 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

It takes longer to lock on.... OH GOD WHY!?!

LRMs do not lock on at all if you can't target. It's not a matter of 'longer', it's a matter of 'never'.

If a tiny 1.5 ton piece of equipment could do this, you would think most variants would equip it.

ECM now is apparently so powerful it blocks your metallic signature, your heat signature, everything. I suppose in the 31st century they just can't make a heat or ferrous seeking missile.

This is why in the canon it only blocked Indirect LRM fire, because only Indirect fire relies on electronic communications. ECM as it is now makes no sense.

Edited by Tilon, 05 December 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Xenosphobatic]

Pre-ECM, 5/8 mechs in a match were either streakcats or had streaks if they had a missle slot. Very few mechs lower than heavyweights were on the field
Post-ECM, I've seen a much greater variety of mechs being fielded.
While the ECM is, IMO, a little on the overpowered side at the moment, it has gone a long way to making lights and especially mediums useful again.

Edited by Xenosphobatic, 05 December 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[Tilon]

Xenosphobatic, on 05 December 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

Pre-ECM, 5/8 mechs in a match were either streakcats or had streaks if they had a missle slot. Very few mechs lower than heavyweights were on the field

Streaks are broken because you only have to lock on once, and you get 100% accuracy after that. In the TT rules the streaks are based on, you would have to lock on for every shot.

That's why streaks were a problem. Streaks were never intended to be the light-killer they were, and it's because of the 'you only need to target once' rule.

Edited by Tilon, 05 December 2012 - 05:04 PM.

[gregsolidus]

Tilon, on 05 December 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

ECM now is apparently so powerful it blocks your metallic signature, your heat signature, everything. I suppose in the 31st century they just can't make a heat or ferrous seeking missile.

The BT rulebook says they can't.

[Nauht]

Hotthedd, on 05 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Going by the number of threads on this very topic, I could assume a higher percentage than 15%, but in business, one is taught to assume that for every ONE customer that complains, 10 to 20 are similarly dissatisfied, but do not complain, they just never come back.

Again making up numbers. But it's also true that where one leaves another walks in the door.
You can't assume anything without solid numbers and facts - unless you run your business on assumptions.

The amount of assumptions about people leaving, quitting of getting a refund has been going on for months. Months. Ever since closed CB. There have been doomsday prophecies about the game blah blah.

Well lookee here, the games still going and without any indication of slowing down.

[Felix]

gregsolidus, on 05 December 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

The BT rulebook says they can't.

BT rulebook also says that ECm only makes it 10-20% harder to hit with lock on weapons, not impossible without tag

[Tilon]

gregsolidus, on 05 December 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

The BT rulebook says they can't.

BT rulebook also says that ECM only works against indirect LRM fire. Why didn't you mention or respond to that part?

[Click]

Gil?

[Tilon]

If a 1.5 ton piece of equipment could block out your heat and metallic signature on top of your electronic signature, nearly every mech would equip it.

[Purlana]

MouseNo4, on 05 December 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

People like mindless shooters. Guess what, this isn't a CoD clone. (O M G ORLY???)

And ECM reqires skill?

LOL

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Nightcrept]

Boymonkey, on 05 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

No sod him, it is still beta and If he wants to leave before launch so be it.
He didn't give any constructive comment just bye bye, so what do you want me to do? beg him to stay? Nah.
Just scream to me a streakcat user who played for a while without understanding the strategic options ecm brings to a mechwarrior game, this is not some cod shooter.

Ecm does far more to turn this into cod then it does to make this game a sim. Unless of course an adequate counter is in the works.