3036 replies to this topic

[Morgan]

Please don't kill this with pay to win. I'm someone who never posts, rarely get on the boards, and plays the game quite a bit. This is a bad idea, for the hundreds of other reasons stated before my post. If the direction of the game starts down this road, I'll take my time and money elsewhere.

Morgan

[Zerstorer Stallin]

borisof007, on 04 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

I stated it in another thread, but here goes:

Module, unlocked with 15000 gxp, bought with 6 million cbills, gives 15% total heat reduction (would have to be tuned for balance), only usable once per match.

This is the only fair and balanced way I can see this.

How about we dont have modules that effect heat? Seriously who would take it? It also adds NOTHING to the game. Heat management is a lare part of balance, which seems to get harder and harder to come by. Not mention why wouldnt they just start tweeking the heat up a bit to give us "incentive" to purchase said item? Its a bad idea in long line of bad ideas.


Streak and ECM jointly - bad idea
ELO match making - bad idea
Pay to win - Good night.

spelling edit.

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 04 March 2013 - 11:45 PM.

[ragingmunkyz]

Oh I agree Dirus Nigh, I'd rather not see it in the game at all. However, the much larger issue is P2W, and the fact that this policy is likely the beginning of a more substantial system of P2W. That to me would kill the game outright. Coolants, well its a beta, they can try them out and if it turns out they aren't working, they can ditch them (and I hope they do). By offering them for money right away, they are basically saying they have no intention of ever taking them out of the game, and at the same time announcing that they game is going from F2P to P2W.

[benth]

Noobzorz, on 04 March 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

I would LOVE this. This would be SO cool. But what it isn't is a consumable. It's a module.

And we need to make that distinction very clearly to everyone so the devs don't get sneaky. Consumables are bad for your game. Modules are not.




This has me in stitches.

"You dare refuse my command chair post?"

[Thorqemada]

If it was April i would have thought of an April Fools joke...

[Araara]

I'm starting to think that PGI / IGP barely reads the forums anymore now and only get the opinion of a small sample of (biased) players to make game design decisions.

I kind of feel like just sending an email through support seeing as public opinions on forums doesn't matter (even if it's not the majority, if it's vocal enough, that means there's smoke and when there's smoke, fire is certainly somewhere).

I wonder how their support email line would like receiving major complaints about the gameplay decisions (my guess would be that there exists some kind of filter...)


...you know what, I'm going to do it just because I still care enough for this game and I don't want to let it go down into P2W drain hole


edit : changed a word, was surprised it wasn't censored!

Edited by Araara, 04 March 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Rina Fujimoto]

Araara, on 04 March 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

I'm starting to think that PGI / IGP barely reads the forums anymore now and only get the opinion of a small sample of (biased) players to make game design decisions.

I kind of feel like just sending an email through support seeing as public opinions on forums doesn't matter (even if it's not the majority, if it's vocal enough, that means there's smoke and when there's smoke, fire is certainly somewhere).

I wonder how their support email line would like receiving major complaints about the gameplay decisions (my guess would be that there exists some kind of filter...)


...you know what, I'm going to do it just because I still care enough for this game and I don't want to let it go down into P2W shithole.

They do to some extent.

It's how we pretended unholy ECM Jenners from being born unto this world, as well as 3rd person.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Dirus Nigh, on 04 March 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

benth, on 04 March 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

"Attention Somerset. I am Star Colonel Paul Inouye of the PGI Pay-to-win Clan. A full modsquad stands ready to conquer your forum with golden coolants. What posters dare oppose us?"

Edited by mwhighlander, 04 March 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[benth]

haruko, on 04 March 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

They do to some extent.

It's how we pretended unholy ECM Jenners from being born unto this world, as well as 3rd person.

As with most game companies they only listen once their forums are a pile of ash and painful memories.

[That Guy]

OK now that we know how coolant will work we can formulate our opinions of it.

I am still against it. very much so. I personally dont care about the P2W implications right now. coolant is just a bad idea. even in its more limited implimentation than past games. just one free "get out of shutting down because you are bad at this" flush is still bad, and is just as encouraging to lazy gameplay as double heatsinks and SSRM/SRM6s.

i dont care about how available coolant will be. i dont care if it is all CB, or if its all MC or if its automatic on all mechs. I am against it.

if you MUST, add them in like the TT with coolant pods where they take up space and weight and lots of internal damage if critically hit.

and you, PGI, MUST have been expecting a huge player back lash. you must have.

Edited by That Guy, 04 March 2013 - 11:51 PM.

[ObsidianSpectre]

borisof007, on 04 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

I stated it in another thread, but here goes:

Module, unlocked with 15000 gxp, bought with 6 million cbills, gives 15% total heat reduction (would have to be tuned for balance), only usable once per match.

This is the only fair and balanced way I can see this.

Previously, I've argued that selling any consumables for MC is going to be P2W, unless a free player can feasibly buy the exact same module for every single match they play. Thinking on it more, even without an MC purchase route, any consumables would have to be made so that every consumable a player could use in a single match could feasibly be purchased from just that one match's winnings. Otherwise, it will always give an advantage to players who pay money over those who don't.

In other words, I agree with you. The only way to make this fair is to make it a permanent module, with one use per match. Once you have it, it's yours forever. Paying only gets you it faster.

[valkyrie]

Didn't Paul write a thesis about "Free to Play" economies, based on NEXON's models, of all things? Would certainly explain a lot.

[I am]

Dirus Nigh, on 04 March 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

A large portion of core fan base of Mechwarrior/Battletech hate the idea.

I like the idea. Over heating is no fun.

Lets just fight and fight and fight and fight and... Oops I got capped.

[Corvus Antaka]

152 pages no doubt thisll all get lost in the void..but...

Why is PGI not selling engines, weapons and everything else like modules for MC? Any of these items could easily be MC or CBILLS, and would no doubt generate some MC sales. As long as its always both MC and cbills. Same for Hero mechs - why not sell them for cbills but without the 30% bonus if yu buy with cbills? it IS pay to win - we cant stick an AC20 into an arm unless we buy a Wang. Lame!!!

Nothing in this game should be MC only. The coolant flush is ********. the damn heatcap is already so high and easy, and now you can overrirde before you ever shutdown, an "overide" macro will insure you never shutdown. Great for the WoW kiddies no doubt.

Now, we have a new handhold, the old fluid flush. in norespawn, One 35% flush means a lot - that crucial moment in battle when you can dump 1 more 6 ppc alpha/whatever. And as I'm reading it, now some dude with more money than someone else can buy one every match? Great, lets invite that rich 1% right into MWO to beat on us here too...as if they don't already suck us dry enough in the real-world.

I'm starting to feel like there are some really rich dudes who cant pilot a tincan that are simultaiosly nurfing this game into crapdom so they don't suck at it because they suck, while thinking of how they can bring in stuff like MC coolant to save their 6 ppc stalkers when they get jumped because 1 35% flush will give them that third alpha they need before a shutdown to kill one guy in 3 shots.

This community is pretty old, and there is a lot of money floating around. This is not the way to get it. Nevermind the whole "coolant flush is unbalanced" and now again another about face.

I tend to think this is a moneyman decision, and a ****** one at that. 6 months I've seen great progress, 2 steps forward, 1 back. I've learned to live with the hero mech crapdom MC only. But fluid flush for MC?

Lets say fluid flush for MC costs 100 MC a shot. lets say you use it for the tourney weekend we just had.

400 games played 400 fluid flushes thats 40000 MC.

Thats 180 dollars?

Lets say that guy wins the tournament, because since he paid for a 35% coolant module he also had room for 3 more rather than the guy who doesnt have 180 bucks to blow on fuild flush.

yeah, this is a crap idea.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 04 March 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[Vapor Trail]

Well all of them, especially the MC version are consumable... So each can only be activated ONCE. For a one time shot of 35% of max cooling. (or once for 15 and once for 20). Then you gotta buy them again.

That said, a little bad idea, is still a bad idea. Coolant flush as a massless, critless mechanic. No Thank You.
Coolant flush that both requires the consumable module, and a consumable tonnage and crit using equipment item. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe.

I'm curious about the pricing. Most modules are priced (in Cbills) about the cost of a light to medium mech... wonder if these are going to be of the same scale. If they're cheap, they're going to adversely affect heat management mechanics. Certain builds are going to eat these like candy, while others aren't going to care one way or another (Gausskitty).

Example: Splatapult. Only thing that makes them anywhere near vulnerable is heat buildup from the weapons. Give them another "heat free" shot and it'll just result in another dead mech.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 04 March 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

152 pages no doubt thisll all get lost in the void..but...

Why is PGI not selling engines, weapons and everything else like modules for MC? Any of these items could easily be MC or CBILLS, and would no doubt generate some MC sales. As long as its always both MC and cbills. Same for Hero mechs - why not sell them for cbills but without the 30% bonus if yu buy with cbills? it IS pay to win - we cant stick an AC20 into an arm unless we buy a Wang. Lame!!!

Nothing in this game should be MC only. The coolant flush is ********. the damn heatcap is already so high and easy, and now you can overrirde before you ever shutdown, an "overide" macro will insure you never shutdown. Great for the WoW kiddies no doubt.

Now, we have a new handhold, the old fluid flush. in norespawn, One 35% flush means a lot - that crucial moment in battle when you can dump 1 more 6 ppc alpha/whatever. And as I'm reading it, now some dude with more money than someone else can buy one every match? Great, lets invite that rich 1% right into MWO to beat on us here too...as if they don't already suck us dry enough in the real-world.

I'm starting to feel like there are some really rich dudes who cant pilot a tincan that are simultaiosly nurfing this game into crapdom so they don't suck at it because they suck, while thinking of how they can bring in stuff like MC coolant to save their 6 ppc stalkers when they get jumped because 1 35% flush will give them that third alpha they need before a shutdown to kill one guy in 3 shots.

This community is pretty old, and there is a lot of money floating around. This is not the way to get it. Nevermind the whole "coolant flush is unbalanced" and now again another about face.

I tend to think this is a moneyman decision, and a ****** one at that. 6 months I've seen great progress, 2 steps forward, 1 back. I've learned to live with the hero mech crapdom MC only. But fluid flush for MC?

Lets say fluid flush for MC costs 100 MC a shot. lets say you use it for the tourney weekend we just had.

400 games played 400 fluid flushes thats 40000 MC.

Thats 180 dollars?

Lets say that guy wins the tournament, because since he paid for a 35% coolant module he also had room for 3 more rather than the guy who doesnt have 180 bucks to blow on fuild flush.

yeah, this is a crap idea.

Quoting you because you make a solid point.


I can guarantee you that someone at IGP had a MAJOR influence in this bs consumable system, because it requires players to continually purchase MC.

Edited by mwhighlander, 04 March 2013 - 11:59 PM.

[AceTimberwolf]

While we are at it can we get rid of the You are being targeted BB voice. I appreciate it but it shouldn't be in the game as another hand holding device. Mind your surroundings so you don't get rear cored

[MegaBusta]

valkyrie, on 04 March 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Didn't Paul write a thesis about "Free to Play" economies, based on NEXON's models, of all things? Would certainly explain a lot.

The moment I first heard about this the warning lights in my subconscious went off. I suppose it had to rear its ugly head at SOME point.

[Devil Fox]

Until I can see the pricing of the CB vs MC coolants... it's just P2W in my eyes, if normal players have to expand enormous amounts of CB funds to maintain a competitive edge against MC coolant users then what's the point of grinding up the CB's in the first place. At the moment the domination of high alpha strike builds is enormous due to PGI's implementation of the maps (small, cramped and dimmly light), even Alpine isn't changing that fact as builds rotate to long range high alpha builds (PPC Atlas and Stalkers anyone?).

I'm also curious how they implement the air raids... what's to stop a team of 8 MC dropping players dumping **** all over the enemy cap at the begining of a match to just wipe out half the force? Alot of questionable decisions yet again by PGI, and doubling back on previous comments once they believe enough time has elapsed.

[Adrian Steel]

Garth Erlam, on 06 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

It's actually because it invalidates heat as an issue in a team vs. team environment.

Just a reminder to go to page 2 here and like the quoted post. For posterity of course.