45 replies to this topic

[Jericho917]

Numerous similarities can be drawn between the houses and modern governments, but it seems that the intentional analogies are:

HOUSE KURITA; imperial Japan (anywhere from the 1800’s to the late 1940’s)

HOUSE DAVION; I want to say a mix of medieval Europe and modern democracies (with various names being always present in politics Kennedy for example.)

HOUSE LIAO; Pretty obviously China but is it 1940’s China, modern China, ancient China?

HOUSE MARIK; I really think this is the modern EU, a lot of people argue that it would be Canada or US. Canada does not have the economic or military power to be considered one of the top 5 super powers (right?) And the US federal government retains much more control over the states that the FWL retains over its planets.

HOUSE STEINER; I really this is the US but not the modern 2012 US the military/economic superpower if the 50’s and 60’s. Just with German feudalistic government superimposed on top. But I’m probably being biased toward my own house and country (someone argue against this please.)

FREE RASALHAGUE REPUBLIC; I really don’t know? This is the one I know the least about. Maybe Sweden? (someone fill this in.)

Agree? Disagree (I hope)? Discuss?

[Blinger30]

Do you mind if I ask what elements of German fuedalism you refer to?

[Jericho917]

The king gave land to the dukes who in turn gave land to knights who gave land to farmers. When the king called the dukes to war they called on the knights who called on the serfs. Pretty sure that’s how it worked…. However, European history is not what my degree is in.
In House Steiner the Dukes control planets rather than plots of land, But it’s still pretty much the same.

[Deathz Jester]

House Davion

House Kurita

House Liao

House Marik

House Steiner

House Steiner-Davion

Free Rasalhague Republic Not sure if its listed, but Rasalhague (to me atleast) came across as Swedish, American, Canadian

Rasalhague Dominion

[JazzySteel]

Federated Suns: US and UK

Lyran Commonwealth: Older representation of Germany

Draconis Combine: Older representation of Japan

FRR: Sweden and the other Nordic EuroStates

Cappelan Confed: Older Representation of China

Remember the Battletech saga is a semi-distopian future. The main swerve from the RL timeline was that the Cold War actually ignited in the BT universe.

[Watchit]

There's also some handy reference on this page.

http://mwomercs.com/game/factions

[Blinger30]

Jericho917, on 13 May 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

The king gave land to the dukes who in turn gave land to knights who gave land to farmers. When the king called the dukes to war they called on the knights who called on the serfs. Pretty sure that’s how it worked…. However, European history is not what my degree is in.
In House Steiner the Dukes control planets rather than plots of land, But it’s still pretty much the same.

Ahh I see, yes that is essentailly how it works, I dont feel the need to nitpick tiny details. But in fuedal europe becuase the Kings gave away almost of thier land to the noblilty if often left the kings with less power than thier high ranking nobles. I dont know much about House Steiner to be honest and cant speak to the kind of strenght that the archon has, but in Feudal Germany, espeically after Barbarossa drowned on his way to crusade and all his hiers were kiled, the barons really ran that country without a king until the Kiaser showed up. Is the Steiner situation similar where that nobles really run the show and the archon has to hope they come when called upon?

[Jericho917]

I appreciate the links guys. but i wanted to get people thoughts on it. Like what Jazzysteel said above.

Quote

Remember the Battletech saga is a semi-distopian future. The main swerve from the RL timeline was that the Cold War actually ignited in the BT universe.

[Hayden]

Eh, I disagree in principal. With the great houses, we're not talking about vast unified cultures but huge patchworks of hundreds of worlds. There are certainly official languages, and even common languages, but assuredly not every Liao planet is primarily populated by people of Chinese extraction. Sure, some worlds may be, but more likely worlds are a patchwork of colonists, especially with immigration after the initial colonization.

There are probably a dozen worlds colonized chiefly by Lithuanians, for example, you just never hear about them. I guess it also makes sense that some regions of earth were better able to afford the costs associated with interstellar travel, which is why most of the Innersphere seems to come from earth's northern hemisphere.

[Jericho917]

Blinger30, on 13 May 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Ahh I see, yes that is essentailly how it works, I dont feel the need to nitpick tiny details. But in fuedal europe becuase the Kings gave away almost of thier land to the noblilty if often left the kings with less power than thier high ranking nobles. I dont know much about House Steiner to be honest and cant speak to the kind of strenght that the archon has, but in Feudal Germany, espeically after Barbarossa drowned on his way to crusade and all his hiers were kiled, the barons really ran that country without a king until the Kiaser showed up. Is the Steiner situation similar where that nobles really run the show and the archon has to hope they come when called upon?

Actually House Steiner is known for notoriously weak military leadership but lots of infighting between nobles. So what you said is VERY accurate.

[Arctic Fox]

Some are obvious, some less so, but here's my take:

Terran Alliance: Modern North America. The Terran Hegemony is culturally similar but had a feudal government.

House Kurita: Feudal Japan.

House Davion: Medieval Britain and France.

House Liao: Imperial China with some shades of Communist China.

House Marik: The Holy Roman Empire during the Renaissance.

House Steiner: The German Empire prior to World War I.

Free Rasalhague Republic: Renaissance Sweden.

ComStar: The Catholic Church, at least initially. I'm not sure exactly what ComStar and Word of Blake would be equivilant to after the schism, though.

The Clans: 13th-century Mongolia.

Marian Hegemony: Roman Empire.

Republic of the Sphere: Roman Republic.

Anything I missed?

These are just the styles of government, there are obviously many different cultures within each state. Also, planetary and regional government often diverge wildly from the state they belong to.

Edited by Arctic Fox, 13 May 2012 - 01:58 PM.

[Blinger30]

Jericho917, on 13 May 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Actually House Steiner is known for notoriously weak military leadership but lots of infighting between nobles. So what you said is VERY accurate.

Well then I have to say your comparison to Feudal Germany is a very good one.

[Deathz Jester]

Well Liao is mostly Chinese, Russian, and Scottish

Davion appears to me mostly Western European, American, Canadian, there's mention of Mexican pilots in some books i've read.

Steiner seems like mostly German, some western European.

FRR: seems like mostly Swedish, Canadian, American, some German, some Russian

Marik, was basically like FFR to my knowledge before they got wiped out


then you had the hybrid factions that arose, like Steiner-Davion

and the Rasalhague Dominion.

[Jericho917]

Hayden, on 13 May 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Eh, I disagree in principal. With the great houses, we're not talking about vast unified cultures but huge patchworks of hundreds of worlds. There are certainly official languages, and even common languages, but assuredly not every Liao planet is primarily populated by people of Chinese extraction. Sure, some worlds may be, but more likely worlds are a patchwork of colonists, especially with immigration after the initial colonization.

There are probably a dozen worlds colonized chiefly by Lithuanians, for example, you just never hear about them. I guess it also makes sense that some regions of earth were better able to afford the costs associated with interstellar travel, which is why most of the Innersphere seems to come from earth's northern hemisphere.

I’m not sure about that. In a few thousand years I think you would be hard pressed to find a person of a specific ethnic origin. Everyone will probably have a little Caucasian, Indian, Chinese and African American in them. It’s almost inevitable. That is becoming true today. What will probably remain distinct is the culture. Chinese v German or Japanese v Swedish, as for genetically we will probably become even more similar than we are today. I’m sure someone will disagree?

[SuomiWarder]

Well, the general idea was that with slow interstellar communication in the begining, a fuedal system of rulers that had only occasional contact with those higehr up the interstellar chain developed.

From that point, they decided to add some social flavor to the mix to give readers something to easily identify with. This was not always done within the same actual time frame. We see something of the Victorian/Industrial/Colonial age English in the Davions, and Imperial Austria in the Steiners. The Caps and Kuritas are obviously a mix of ancient fuedal and more more modern 19th century China and Japan. (The swedes are part of house Kurita for some obscure reason accoring to the early novels). The FWL and house Marik is anyone's guess but as the Eruopean Union was not even a pipe dream back when the BattleTech universe was written the US and North American democracies in general would seem the likliest connection. The FRR was basically vikings in space with poor research on who the Vikings mainly were (they were Danes originally, not Swedes or Finns although there were certainly elements of both Swedish and Finnish society that took to going viking as a life style).

[Pvt Dancer]

Well, another thing to consider is the time this game was created... earily to mid 80's. Reagan-nomics, Iron Curtain and the Soviet Threat. WWII was still a major influence on creating a game where the 'world' is at war.

House Kurita: I feel WWII Japan is dead on.

House Davion: I actually feel it is a combo of WWII UK politically and WWII Germany militarily. So Germany without the Nazis? The thing I dig about them is that they are the only House to not have command given as political appointment, but as a earned position.

House Liao: I actually feel it is closer to 50's-80's China, before they 'opened' up to become a world economic power.

House Marik: I see WWII Italy here.

House Steiner: I kinda see them as a mix of Imperial Germany (1900's) politically and Napoleon France (1800's) Militarily. I feel Steiner is the opposite of Davion of with Military appointment, as it is purily a political appointment.

Yeah... I am probably way off base on this, but I never read the fluff books... I just didn't care. I was to busy playing the game.

Edited by Pvt Dancer, 13 May 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[Jericho917]

Arctic Fox, on 13 May 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Some are obvious, some less so, but here's my take:



House Marik: The Holy Roman Empire during the Renaissance.

House Steiner: The German Empire prior to World War I.

ComStar: The Catholic Church, at least initially. I'm not sure exactly what ComStar and Word of Blake would be equivilant to after the schism, though.

Anything I missed?

These are just the styles of government, there are obviously many different cultures within each state. Also, planetary and regional government often diverge wildly from the state they belong to.

What you said about Steiner and Marik I find very accurate. Com Star being the Catholic Church, Could you explain that?

[Hayden]

Jericho917, on 13 May 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I’m not sure about that. In a few thousand years I think you would be hard pressed to find a person of a specific ethnic origin. Everyone will probably have a little Caucasian, Indian, Chinese and African American in them. It’s almost inevitable. That is becoming true today. What will probably remain distinct is the culture. Chinese v German or Japanese v Swedish, as for genetically we will probably become even more similar than we are today. I’m sure someone will disagree?

That's actually a pretty good points and kind of what I was touching upon. In the 20 Year Update, Justin Allard's mother and father are described as being of pure chinese extraction and of european extraction, and something that kind of stuck with me is how the book described such a lack of ethnic ambiguity as a rarity. So your point is probably even more accurate.

[Arikiel]

Well as I see it there were two main influences that went into the making of the Houses. Firstly there was the neo-feudalistic medieval influence. Like Davion being knights of Charlemagne or Arthur wannabes and Kurita being Samurai wannabes. The other main source of inspiration back when they were first designed was the power blocks of World War 2. The Great Houses are a fusion of those two influences imo. I wouldn't compare them to anything too modern as 25 years ago when they were first thought up things like the E.U. didn't exist.

[Deathz Jester]

I can kind of see the comparison between Comstar and the Catholic church. Im not referring to the church of nowadays I'm referring to back when the crusades were going on, or even during the renaissance


They're sort of this big controlling power that tells people stuff, and who are you to question the people who control the HPG network? They have an army, and are in control of most interplanetary communications.