29 replies to this topic

[Jakob Knight]

IceSerpent, on 06 December 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Agreed, but I think it would be better for ECM to make missile boats' life difficult instead of shutting them down completely. Maybe allow for LRM lock if attacker has LOS to target and allow for SSRM lock, but make half of SSRMs miss? Just thinking out loud here...

ECM will still increase the target aquisition time with this suggestion. As said, it does not alter the ECM, just allows a unit that spends 1.5 tons and 2 crits to have the ability to counter another unit that spent 1.5 tons and 2 crits, with neither unit needing to sacrifice anything beyond space/tonnage or having to take active action. In addition, only one unit has to take ECM for an entire team to benefit, but each individual unit would have to take BAP to gain the benefit suggested. The goal here is not to make a large number of changes or alter more than is needed. And to do so in a way that is balanced for both sides. ECM would still have its value, and be more than worth taking, but there would now be both a point in taking BAP and allow Fire Support back into its place on the battlefield.


Streaks are something of another issue, but ECM would still affect those normally, as the maximum range of Streaks is fairly close to that where ECM comes into play (and most combat with Streaks takes place at close range). Thus, the impact of this on the ECM/Streak interaction would remain mostly unchanged.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 06 December 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[RedMercury]

Simpler yet, just make ECM not affect anything beyond 180m, like the table top rules.

[Syllogy]

Jakob.

Equip a TAG.

TAG your own targets.

Let the missiles fly.

Simple. Easy. No Changes to Current Mechanics.

[General Taskeen]

Syllogy, on 06 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Jakob.

Equip a TAG.

TAG your own targets.

Let the missiles fly.

Simple. Easy. No Changes to Current Mechanics.

So what? Stock builds still have no use.

Syllogy

Play a Trial Mech/Pick a Stock Build

Can't Equip TAG.

Can't TAG your own targets.

Simple. Easy.

[Syllogy]

General Taskeen, on 06 December 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

So what? Stock builds still have no use.

Syllogy

Play a Trial Mech/Pick a Stock Build

Can't Equip TAG.

Can't TAG your own targets.

Simple. Easy.

So the source of your frustration is the inability to equip TAG on a trial mech?

And here I was thinking that you actually had a gripe with how the game worked.

Let me add a step: Buy a mech.

Edited by Syllogy, 06 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Victor Morson]

If they increase the range of the TAG to 1000m, I'll be fine with ECM as it is.

[General Taskeen]

Syllogy, on 06 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

So the source of your frustration is the inability to equip TAG on a trial mech?

And here I was thinking that you actually had a gripe with how the game worked.

Let me add a step: Buy a mech.

Again, since you don't know me, and you assume things, like every other arrogant person on these forums. Maybe I'm just assuming your arrogant, but if people want to post snide, unhelpful suggestions/comments, then so be it. No, I don't use Trial Mechs, I use the founder Mechs plus a few others. None have ECM, None have LRMs, I don't have an A1. Yes, I like stock builds. Sometimes I stick to stock builds for pure challenge.

Basically, here is the run down, MWO Beta is one giant circle jerk:

1. A1 Drivers said "Adapt" to their Streaks
2. ECM Drivers said "Adapt" to our ECM's

*Insert any new unbalanced exploitable toy, same story, and around and round we go*

This will keep happening until the game is truly balanced. No one is currently entitled to anything or "good" in any respect. This is a Beta, the Balance is a Beta, Equipment/Weapon is a Beta, Match making is a Beta. Etc.

Edited by General Taskeen, 06 December 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Mad Pig]

Instead of nerficing ECM, I like the idea of some type of passive counter through a module or sensor buff (for example, BAP gives a 10% reduction to ECM effective bubble).

Worthy compromise? Or did someone spike my slop?

[Roadbuster]

Coryphee, on 06 December 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

What about ECM counter mode ?
What about TAG ?
What about Teamplay ?
What about Heat Vision ?

I really think that ECm is a good implementation, and give a new dimension to the gameplay, fortifying teamplay and communication. So it doesn't need any "nerf" or counter...

ECM counter mode works. But only if you have a mech with ECM on your team, and only if the opponent doesn't have more ECM than your team.

TAG works at close ranges but seems to do nothing at higher ranges (300-400m). It also is harder to TAG a mech in the ECM bubble compared to a normal target. You have to keep TAG on the mech for some time to make it targetable at all, while the TAG effect is instant on normal targets. (not talking about fast moving light mechs, also the case with assaults)

Teamplay works as long as people know where their teammates are and what they are doing.
Once inside ECM, teams fall apart because of missing communication most of the time.
This is a player problem.

Heat Vision is nice and I'm using it often, but to be honest, I'm not playing this game to turn off the nice graphics and watch blurred blue points moving around.
It's a way to better see mechs but no counter to ECM.


As it is, ECM is a big buff to any team but there is no "effective" couter.
ECM to counter ECM would be ok if it would disable ECM on all mechs in its range, no matter how many ECMs there are on the opposing team. But because ECMs stack, that's not the case at the moment.
Increased TAG range will be a help too. (they plan to increase it to ~750m)
I also agree that ECM range seems to be higher than intended at the moment. (more like 200m instead of 180m)

[Apoc1138]

I agree with the ECCM should counter all ECM's in range... it would encourage teams to spread out their ECM's so that even though one bit of the team are contered they can still cover another bit of the team... it would help reduce the "ball up with lots of ECM and roflstomp the enemy" that sometimes happens now

mind you, also bear in mind that modules not yet released include possible artillery / airstrike

so,enemy ball up under ECM, friendly tags 1 from 750m... launch airstrike > Profit!