153 replies to this topic

[Raalic]

It seems that the damage only spreads to other areas if the projectile lands between hit boxes. A well-placed CT or leg shot will not spread damage to other parts of the 'mech, but a headshot nearly always will because the hit boxes are a cluster up there on most 'mechs.

[Demonocolips]

if we had choice of ammo it would.
HE ammo it would be.
AP ammo no.
HEAT it would be a littl.e
HESH it kind of works on those mechanics.
right now i think everything is AP so while it does have a little explosive content it should not be spread over a large area as it is mainly the kinetic not explosive damage that it applies.
edit.
wait .25 meters. 25 centimeters. 12 centimeters size of ac 20 if i remember one discription.
hmmm still not viable but if the size of the shell fits its O.K.ish smaller maybe 15 centimeters.
but again size of the shell and the ammo type all apply

Edited by Demonocolips, 06 December 2012 - 07:41 AM.

[Naitsirch]

Raalic, on 06 December 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

It seems that the damage only spreads to other areas if the projectile lands between hit boxes. A well-placed CT or leg shot will not spread damage to other parts of the 'mech, but a headshot nearly always will because the hit boxes are a cluster up there on most 'mechs.

read the OP's letter, he shot a ct and lt+rt received damage too... tell me the adjacency of that pls

[zenstrata]

This is one of the few polls I feel compelled to vote in. Spreading damage like this defeats the purpose of having a weapon which deals more damage in each shot. Basically this means we might as well just get smaller faster firing weapons with higher dps rates, because the damage is being spread out anyway, so we are better off doing more damage in the same period with a higher dps weapon. Instead of using the lower dps but more concentrated damage dealing weapons.

I have been wondering what was going wrong with weapons since the last patch. It seemed like it would take insane amounts of fire just to put down one mech. It must be due to this new stealth damage spread which was added in the last patch.

Edited by zenstrata, 06 December 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Undead Bane, on 06 December 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

Let me correct you. That is not a convergence issue. If that was it, in the third example I had provided in the letter, C1 would have got 2 (two) locations damaged by two AC20 rounds. Instead, it got 3 (three) locations damaged, and the damage was less than 20 per location.

Are you referring to the "change" that happened almost five months ago? Because it doesn't sound like anything new has changed according to PGI.

Undead Bane, on 06 December 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

I will also try to convince my unit to make some tests in 8-men drops for SINGLE AC20 with video. Because I experienced (and noticed) damage spread in this case too. But I only paid attention to it after I had problems with dual AC20.

I will be curious to hear the results. I'd expect the autocannon to hit a single location, unless perhaps a shot that impacts the breakline between two hitboxes can result in a damage "spread"? Though that does sound a lot like the way I'd expect a real-world projectile to behave under that circumstance.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

or you are facing better/ more balanced competition, as I have been headshotting mechs since Closed Beta, and continued my streak unabated the last 2 nights.

Lets make up more strawmen and boogeymen to blame PGI for.

Bring PROOF, not conjecture, then I'll listen.

Crowd mentality...

If enough people repeat something is has to be true.

[Undead Bane]

Texas Merc, on 06 December 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

OK IF YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYING THIS GAME BALLISTICS HAVE SPREAD SINCE CLOSED BETA!!!

Nothing new nothing to see nothing has changed......

seriously.

Ok, let me give you a big answer.
I've been playing since end of July. I've been using ballistics and PPCs a lot all the time, and noticed the damage being spread sometimes, especially from PPCs.
During that time, devs were asked, if there is any spread present and they answered "NO". And that's true, if we are just talking about 0.25m impact radius which, actually, fits in any part of any mech.
However, since last (or maybe, the previous one) patch ballistics performance dropped for me a lot, and damage started to spread out a lot also. Especially when you shoot light mechs. So, I made some tests, did official request (as long as we see support as an official source) and received official response, that the spread exists, which is exactly opposite to what the devs told us.
Maybe the spread is connected to impact radius being increased, maybe it is a separate mechanic. Either way, it is now overkill. And I want to get opinion on this overkill now.
Also, changes like that must be included in patch notes, even if it was only radius changes. However, we did not see that.

Edited by Undead Bane, 06 December 2012 - 06:44 AM.

[Naitsirch]

Solis Obscuri, on 06 December 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Are you referring to the "change" that happened almost five months ago? Because it doesn't sound like anything new has changed according to PGI.

I will be curious to hear the results. I'd expect the autocannon to hit a single location, unless perhaps a shot that impacts the breakline between two hitboxes can result in a damage "spread"? Though that does sound a lot like the way I'd expect a real-world projectile to behave under that circumstance.

again, in his question-letter towards a GM he says he shot a CT and RT+LT received damage too, which as the GM stated was (in this and the other 2 cases) correct

READ THE LETTER PEOPLE BEFORE YOU POST

[Joseph Mallan]

i would say we are using AP by the description of what DU ammo does, There should be next to no splash/spread of damage. DU ammo burns it doesn't explode.

[Gregore]

I thought PPC were supposed to have splash damage to start with.

[Dukov Nook]

So all ballistic weapons are shotguns now?

This is 100% ridiculous.

[Undead Bane]

Gregore, on 06 December 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I thought PPC were supposed to have splash damage to start with.

Nope, according to the devs, they were not

[Viper69]

This is really weird. I wondered why my point blank to the chest ac20 shots were registering as center plus an adjacent. This should not be and if so is yet another sidestep around their shat hardpoint system they dressed up like oprah in a black lace number.

[Undead Bane]

Dukov Nook, on 06 December 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

So all ballistic weapons are shotguns now?

This is 100% ridiculous.

Technically, they are like that since 25th of July. Now they are MORE like shotguns.

[Naitsirch]

Thontor, on 06 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Easy. This was with dual AC/20s against a Catapult. One AC/20 round hit close to the border between CT/RT and the other hit close to the border between CT/LT

You imply he was shooting at a straight and strict 90 degree angle and hit in the longitudinal plane EXACTLY where the bullets had left his ac-barrels, because that would be the only way to hit that way, with weapons not converging a single degree?

[Naitsirch]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

i would say we are using AP by the description of what DU ammo does, There should be next to no splash/spread of damage. DU ammo burns it doesn't explode.

I thought depleted uranium is just heavier and has a higher density and therefore is better than let's say Wolfram. Am I wrong?

[Darth JarJar]

Actually, this is somewhat more in keeping with canon. Autocannons are supposed to fire a 'stocatto stream of shells', which means that, essentially, autocannons are meant to be a DoT weapon that needs to be adjusted while firing to keep all the damage in one panel, similar to lasers. I don't think that the way they have addressed it is right, though. They should have ACs and the UAC5 behaving properly, rather than making the single shot take an accuracy nerf.

Caveat: I realize that this isn't TT rules, but read any of the novels and this is the way it is presented. I was disappointed when the AC's didn't behave this way. At least the old MW4 had the visuals right with the stream of slugs, even if the damage was concentrated on the hit panel, just like the lasers did, which was wrong for the lasers. At least they got lasers right!

Edited by von Bremerhaven, 06 December 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

Undead Bane, on 06 December 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

Hm, and by "official" you mean what? Devs?
So far, I have a letter from Game Master, recieved from official address. IMO, it's official enough.

Depending on your amount of experience with online games, you should know better than to take a Game Master response with anything less than a small mountain of salt.

A few weeks ago, we had a guy get a GM response that told him that Critical Hits do bonus damage to internals.

Tip: They don't, and a Programmer + Developer response later cleared up that mishmash.

Game Masters are just Customer Service representatives that have to play a game of telephone where the questions they get are thrown around between 4-5 different levels of personnel before they get to someone who can answer them, and then sent back through 4-5 more levels of personnel before they get back to the player. Assuming the programmer/Dev was even answering the same question that was being asked, there are no assurances that the answer the GM received is the same as the one that was given at that level.

I've had no problem headshoting people with AC/20 rounds at 500m since the patch, so I'd hold off on the sh*tstorm for a bit.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 06 December 2012 - 06:52 AM.

[Viper69]

Everyone just test it yourselves if you dont believe him. Its too bad we dont have training rooms to do this in.

So we have double armor + damage spread. What type of armor is it memory foam?

[Undead Bane]

von Bremerhaven, on 06 December 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

Actually, this is somewhat more in keeping with canon. Autocannons are supposed to fire a 'stocatto stream of shells', which means that, essentially, autocannons are meant to be a DoT weapon that needs to be adjusted while firing to keep all the damage in one panel, similar to lasers. I don't think that the way they have addressed it is right, though. They should have ACs and the UAC5 behaving properly, rather than making the single shot take an accuracy nerf.

Agreed. But then, they should be displayed like that, like it was made, say, in MW3. Then it would be fine.
Implicit spread, however, is not fine, as it is unpredictable and unaccountable.