13 replies to this topic

[HellJumper]

Ok i did search first, no results so starting a topic..

SImple question..

Will this game be all about Alpha Strikes??

e.g. lots of beam based weapons/ missle based/ ballastic based weapons can do tons of damage in their initial strike..just asking cause it might turn out into this type of game..i do huge alpha damage...take huge alpah damage... my ally kills the target with his alpha strike..ad i die from alpha strike of an enemy..


saying this cause i played mechwarrior 4 mercs online last night..and it was all about alpha damage... 3 strike max and a fafniar/atlas were going down

[Sassori]

They called it 'Boating' in the topics here. It has been discussed quite, ah, vigorously. Should be one on Page 2 if it's been pushed back a little.

[trycksh0t]

Umm...that'd be a no. Read through the Q&As, the DevBlogs, watch the gameplay videos, and you'll get an idea that's not really how this is gonna go. I'll do a quick breakdown of some main reasons though.

1) Weapons are no longer point-and-shoot, perfectly accurate. There appears to be movement penalties, weapon convergence timing, and some other factors in-place that means you don't necessarily always hit where you're pointing.

2) MechLab is set-up differently, with a combination of critical-slots and weapon hardpoints that put more controls in-place on customization.

3) Lasers no longer deal all their damage at once, they're a DoT beam that you have to keep on target.

There's other things, but it's late and I'm tired, so I'll stop there.

[Kanatta Jing]

A lot Mechs are made for alpha striking. Like the Awesome or the Commando. So it will be in.

But we suspect you'll see more weapon mixing, and a tendency towards knife fighting, meaning that snipers will want a close range option.

[HellJumper]

Well for snipers i dont mind much..but i experienced something in mw4mercs and forund it extremely annoying so i discussed it here... if the same kind of stuff starts happening here then a lot of people might avoid playing it...

I understand that laser shooting mechanics have been changed and i like it pretty much...imo the devs will have to do some serious balancing in order to discourage every one from sniping and alpha strike OP damages..


uptill now i think devs doing freaking good job (based on the vids and reading forums)

[Balls of Steele]

If you're just gonna load out a sh*t-ton of ppcs on your Awesome or whatever and try Alpha-ing everything, you'll probably melt the reactor right out from under your feet or at the very least force a shutdown from the heat. In MW4 you could just flush coolant to Alpha over and over, here I'm guessing heat management will be way more important based on what we've seen.

[HellJumper]

Balls of Steele, on 19 May 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

If you're just gonna load out a sh*t-ton of ppcs on your Awesome or whatever and try Alpha-ing everything, you'll probably melt the reactor right out from under your feet or at the very least force a shutdown from the heat. In MW4 you could just flush coolant to Alpha over and over, here I'm guessing heat management will be way more important based on what we've seen.

this is the reason i asked...and from what i am reading on forums heat management, having heatsinks is playing a huge role here so that is one way to counter the problem of having massive beam based mechs and doing huge damage without any penalty...if things like this get implemented that MWO will be one hell of a game to keep gamers dragged in for loooong time

[Redshift2k5]

Beam/PPC weaponry always had the added problem of heat managment requirements, and MWO is adding some new features to make lasers less effective as alpha strike weapons (specifically the damage over time, which will also spread damage over a wider area vs a moving target)

The new dual-reticule system will also reduce all types of alpha strikes because it will be more difficult to get all weapons in line all at once

Of course if you want to alpha strike with ballistics or missiles then you are risking dangerous ammo explosions and carry only a limited amount of ammunition, and you'll need to successfully lead your targets to hit with AC and SRMs. If they're loaded with SRMs for an SRM alpha strike, their ability to deal with you at long range will be severely reduced

Alphas will be dangerous, and they should be. Other builds will also be dangerous! you have as much to fear from an alpha strike brawler as you do from a dedicated multi-LRM/20 mech, or multiple PPC platform(long range alpha strike, ouch), or gauss rifles, or a super fast scout getting on your back and blasting your rear armor when you're not looking

Edited by Redshift2k5, 19 May 2012 - 03:11 AM.

[Yeach]

Christopher Dayson, on 19 May 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

They called it 'Boating' in the topics here. It has been discussed quite, ah, vigorously. Should be one on Page 2 if it's been pushed back a little.

Boating and alpha-strikes are different.
Alpha striking is firing all weapons at the same time;
boating is mounting all the same weapons (but not necessarily firing all of them at the same time).
And yes they have been discussed at length here.

[Slystone]

We continued testing the Friends and Family Beta this week, the culmination of which is two very different 'Mechs. First up: My personal Catapult C1

• Replace both LRM 15's with a total of four SRM 6's.
  
• Add 1 ton of SRM ammo
  
• Change the four Medium Lasers to Small Lasers
  
• Add Heat Sinks until you have 20 total
  
• Armour up your Torso and Arms; rear armour is not a priority.
  
• Keep two jump jets, remove the rest for space.

You really do need at least a 2 v 2 for this 'Mech to work, and the key to using this 'Mech should be pretty clear: Wait for someone to be distracted and jump jet down as close as possible, and use all your SRM's at once. You'll cause catastrophic damage to anything you hit; however, you run extremely hot, and have little armour to use in a stand up fight. Try your hardest to jump jet into a fight, use all your missiles, and then jump jet away while using your small lasers.[/
The reason only a single ton of SRM ammo is used is that you'll either kill you enemy in a couple salvos, or they'll kill you - it is a very 'coin toss build' - just try to make sure that coin lands in your favour via positioning and jump jetting in and out of combat!It's an incredibly risky build, but oh so worth it when it works. Hope you enjoyed reading about it!



This seems like a boat and he seems to be talking about an alpha strike..... I'm just sayin! Not as bad as beam weapons in MW4 but he is going for it in spirit.

Edited by Slystone, 19 May 2012 - 03:32 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

A boat can have a powerful alpha strike (especially an SRM boat, ouch!)
A powerful alpha strike mech does not have to be a boat (Medium lasers, large lasers, AC/20, AC/10, and SRM all have a lot of overlap in their range)

An AC/20, some medium lasers, and some SRM racks is certainly not a boat by any definition but will pack a mean alpha strike

[HellJumper]

Redshift2k5, on 19 May 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

A boat can have a powerful alpha strike (especially an SRM boat, ouch!)
A powerful alpha strike mech does not have to be a boat (Medium lasers, large lasers, AC/20, AC/10, and SRM all have a lot of overlap in their range)

An AC/20, some medium lasers, and some SRM racks is certainly not a boat by any definition but will pack a mean alpha strike

yes they will pack some serious punch..but as long as this game does not turn into having Alpha strikes it will be fun..but if it comes down to like mw4merc, where its all about waiting for all weapons to recharge and shooting them all together..then it will be an issue..as either you or your enemy will be going in a matter of few mins which can be extremely annoying... i remember a game in which i had 9 kills and 21 deaths...all cause i was being taken out in 3 shots...3 Alpha strikes (all weapons firing together)

Slystone, on 19 May 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

We continued testing the Friends and Family Beta this week, the culmination of which is two very different 'Mechs. First up: My personal Catapult C1

• Replace both LRM 15's with a total of four SRM 6's.
  
• Add 1 ton of SRM ammo
  
• Change the four Medium Lasers to Small Lasers
  
• Add Heat Sinks until you have 20 total
  
• Armour up your Torso and Arms; rear armour is not a priority.
  
• Keep two jump jets, remove the rest for space.

You really do need at least a 2 v 2 for this 'Mech to work, and the key to using this 'Mech should be pretty clear: Wait for someone to be distracted and jump jet down as close as possible, and use all your SRM's at once. You'll cause catastrophic damage to anything you hit; however, you run extremely hot, and have little armour to use in a stand up fight. Try your hardest to jump jet into a fight, use all your missiles, and then jump jet away while using your small lasers.[/
The reason only a single ton of SRM ammo is used is that you'll either kill you enemy in a couple salvos, or they'll kill you - it is a very 'coin toss build' - just try to make sure that coin lands in your favour via positioning and jump jetting in and out of combat!It's an incredibly risky build, but oh so worth it when it works. Hope you enjoyed reading about it!



This seems like a boat and he seems to be talking about an alpha strike..... I'm just sayin! Not as bad as beam weapons in MW4 but he is going for it in spirit.

i understand what the dev said in this but he also mentioned that due to ammo shortage its a risk for you, plus he is using SRMs which means he need to get in close enough to a target when its DISTRACTED otherwise u are no good...

[Balls of Steele]

Seems like they have a really solid idea of gameplay balance. In order to mount the SRMs needed for a decent Alpha strike he had to remove some armour and it has heat issues to boot. If you miss it's pretty much game over, success with a build like that is based on skill and circumstance. I'm pretty confident the devs have got this down.

[HellJumper]

ya i hope so as well..i dont want to see very heavily armored mechs with high end weaponray capable of shattering you from decent enough range....

as in the dev's given circumstance he sacrificed armor and his success factor based on enemy mech being distracted while he sneaks in..if that does not work then the tactic fails