41 replies to this topic

[FroBanger]

I pilot a Commando with 3 streaks and a Tag and as you know a commando is a 25 ton mech why does a 25 ton mech have to be forced to equip 10 heat sinks ?

I have a heat effeciency of 2.02 with 10 heat sinks forced on me. is their any alternative way or is this just tabletop lore and its how it has to be?

[CocoaJin]

Yeah, that bugs me too. I have a Cataphract with a HE of 1.11, but I have to equip a heat sink to keep the engine happy? I could make much better use of that ton to keep my ACs fed.

[Huovi]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Myomer

Larger engine creates more power and more power makes faster myomer muscle movement thus so far creates more waste heat .

" Myomer require large amounts of electrical voltage to function, with the larger "muscles" obviously requiring more energy than smaller. However, they have high electrical resistance, causing large amounts of waste heat which needs to be dispersed or the fibers will fry themselves."

[trycksh0t]

OP: You would be correct, it's part of the core rules, all 'Mechs must carry a minimum 10 heatsinks for the engine, with any engine less than a 250 requiring the additionals to be mounted on the chassis. It's one of those things that has always been and pretty much always will be.

And, from previous experience of having less than 10, there is a certain map where running fewer is suicide. I'm sure you know which that is (Had a Centurion with 8 heatsinks that shutdown, and it took something like 3 minutes to cool to 0 heat with no weapons fire).

[CocoaJin]

Houvi, on 02 December 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

[color="#b27204"]http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Myomer[/color]

Larger engine creates more power and more power makes faster myomer muscle movement thus so far creates more waste heat .

" Myomer require large amounts of electrical voltage to function, with the larger "muscles" obviously requiring more energy than smaller. However, they have high electrical resistance, causing large amounts of waste heat which needs to be dispersed or the fibers will fry themselves."

That may applicable for my CTF, but seems a bit over the top for a Commando.

Plus, in game, is the heat sink requirment for an engine based on the engine or the mech?

Edited by CocoaJin, 02 December 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[Huovi]

Also bigger mechs can absorb more heat which should make them more heat resilient. Smaller mech hass less mass so they can't absorb so much heat which leads to heat increase. 100 units heat applied 100 units mass, which radiates heat away 100 units. So temp keeps constant. But 100 units heat to 10 units of mass radiates 10 units heat away -> heat increases. So i would believe in "real" world, fighting at low atmosphere / vacuum, small mechs can't absorb heat so they are prone to heating faster etc.

I believe 10 heatsinks are needed for engine.

[Huovi]

Our mechs has fusion engines, and they take electricity out of them. Do they have steam turbines, couln't find anything that suggest turbine?

Maybe mech use method explained at link?

But as always, trying to explain fiction world with real world physics is certain failure.
Just have to press " I want to believe" button, and hide physics books.

http://www.visionofe...to-electricity/

[Egomane]

Please remember, that those 10 heatsinks are weight free. The weight you now pay for those sinks, is subtracted from the original weight of the engine.

To explain it in a bit more detail, I will quote an older post of mine:

Egomane, on 08 November 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Engine weight now includes:
- Cockpit
- Gyro
- Engine

It does currently not include:
- Weight for heatsinks below 10 if they don't fit into the engine

So, yes, it could get confusing with the engine weight, but I haven't noticed any errors, so far.

Example:
Per Tabletop rules, a standard 100 engine would weigh 3 tons. A cockpit always weighs 3 tons. A gyro for a 100 rated engine costs 1 ton (engine rating/100, always round up to the next full ton). For a total of 7 tons.
In MWO, a standard 100 engine weighs 1 ton. That is the above 7 tons minus the 6 tons for heatsinks that don't fit into the engine.

Example 2:
Per Tabletop rules, a XL 200 engine would weigh 4.5 tons. A cockpit always weighs 3 tons. A gyro for a 200 rated engine costs 2 ton (engine rating/100, always round up to the next full ton). For a total of 9.5 tons.
In MWO, a XL 200 engine weighs 7.5 ton. That is the above 9.5 tons minus the 2 tons for heatsinks that don't fit into the engine.

Everything is fine here, please move along.

[The Basilisk]

Read the post above !
When considering the mechanics of this Game somewhat complicated to understand please consider that this game isn't simply the revive of an old Computer Game franchise but the aproach to convert the Battletech Tabletop Game and its Universe into a Computer Game.
Thats the main focus of this whole mess.
From this point of view I am very pleased whith what the devs achieved so far. (And I'm eager to find out what they will achive in the future, no doubt theres much to be done)

[UnseenFury]

I don't know what are you talking about, when it says my mech needs one more heat sink with that engine, I just doesn't care, and it let's me to enter the battle without it.

[Egomane]

Paran01ac, on 02 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

I don't know what are you talking about, when it says my mech needs one more heat sink with that engine, I just doesn't care, and it let's me to enter the battle without it.

Than this is a bug. You shouldn't be able to launch with an invalid mech. Please file a bug report and stop exploiting it (as that would be against the terms of use), if it works for you.

[Monky]

It has to do with a rule not implemented - when your mech takes 2 engine crits it's supposed to constantly produce 10 heat, making a 10 heatsink build 'heat neutral' so long as you don't run at full speed. It's kind of a holdover from battletech. at 3 engine crits your mech of course stops functioning all together.

Either way, it's build rules, and build rules are intended to allow canon mechs to not be completely broken (aka trial and default loadout mechs)

[Snib]

Paran01ac, on 02 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

I don't know what are you talking about, when it says my mech needs one more heat sink with that engine, I just doesn't care, and it let's me to enter the battle without it.

It won't let you enter battle without 10 heatsinks. But it gives you the message about needing more heatsinks each time you install a < 10 heatsinks engine regardless of how many other heatsinks you have installed to your mech already.

[Mawai]

As mentioned ... every engine comes with 10 heat sinks ... this is part of the TT mech design system.

For large engines these fully fit inside the engine. For smaller engines these take up some space in the chassis. The weight of these heat sinks is fully included in the engine weights.

If you want a fictional "real world" explanation ... Battletech is a bit backward from a tech perspective ... they have lost a lot of knowledge and are often constructing mechs and parts based on centuries old information which they don't experiment with that much. As a result, one might consider that the design of the fusion engine cooling system is standardized and is then fitted to the specific engine during assembly. As a result, the cooling provided is the same for all mechs. However, since the engine sizes change, in some cases the cooling sub-system fits within the engine spaces and in some cases it doesn't. The engine can only hold (engine rating)/25 engine heat sink equivalents ... the rest must be allocated space in the chassis but the weight has already been accounted for in the modified engine weights used in MWO.

[Stingz]

Mawai, on 02 December 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

If you want a fictional "real world" explanation ... Battletech is a bit backward from a tech perspective ... they have lost a lot of knowledge and are often constructing mechs and parts based on centuries old information which they don't experiment with that much.

Summary: Battletech literally nuked themselves back to the stone age. Now they are trying to recover all that fancy tech, occasionally stumbling upon Lostech.

Examples of Lostech tech are Endo-Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, XL Engines, UAC/5, and LBX/10.

Edited by Stingz, 02 December 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

This is correct. it is horrid for mechs like the commando to be forced to take 4-6 tons of heatsinks because we want to run a smaller engine. the commando is currently horribly gimped with choices due to this.

[qultar]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 02 December 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

This is correct. it is horrid for mechs like the commando to be forced to take 4-6 tons of heatsinks because we want to run a smaller engine. the commando is currently horribly gimped with choices due to this.

did you not READ? the heat sink tons are all ready paid for
the only way i can see why some one wants less then 10 sinks is they want to kill them self faster

[Konner Duko]

from what i am reading in this thread it is obvious the people that played table top and hach using table top rules. those that only know the mechwarrior previous games just don't get this.

for thos not getting it. if you have less than 10 heatsincks min in a mech its lijke trying to run a car with a 1/2 size radiator in the desert running a race. not hard to see that you can run that car but it will melt down on you really quickly. that is all it is.

2nd point every engine comes equipted with those 10 heatsinks. but not all casses will they fit into the engine compartment. ( kindadding a blower to the car and you need to cut a hole in the hood to acomodate for the extra space it will take up.

3rd point. most of the complaining is on the comando. in reality the comando is a harasser and not something ment to up and slug out with heaver mechs. when collisions are reimplemented i am sure that all you commando mechs that like to put your cockpit into the waite area of an assult will relise how futile that will be when the assult looks down with a smile on its face and you then go boom from the alpha on you.

just my thoughts.

[Caboose30]

Not turbines. Magnetohydrodynamics - the plasma is held in place by intense electromagnetic fields, and the fluctuation of the fields as the plasma expands and contracts creates power, more or less. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's the cliffnote's version.

Huovi, on 02 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Our mechs has fusion engines, and they take electricity out of them. Do they have steam turbines, couln't find anything that suggest turbine?

Maybe mech use method explained at link?

But as always, trying to explain fiction world with real world physics is certain failure.
Just have to press " I want to believe" button, and hide physics books.

http://www.visionofe...to-electricity/

[sp1ce weezl]

I wonder, will the flea also need 10 HS?