219 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Thank you for this very useful guide. I really appreciate the effort you put into it. I've read it end to end 4 times now but I am still confused about what to do with my ShadowHawk...

I have an ERPPC and some Streaks to help strip the armor. My question is whether I should choose either 3 MGs or 1 LBX10 for equipment-destroying/killshot purposes.

My current thinking is that the LBX10 is the better choice because, while the 3 MGs would crit more frequently, I'd have to be a lot closer to the target. Plus, the LBX will also do more damage to armor in the first place.

What do you think?

[Selfish]

Appogee, on 08 November 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Thank you for this very useful guide. I really appreciate the effort you put into it. I've read it end to end 4 times now but I am still confused about what to do with my ShadowHawk...

I have an ERPPC and some Streaks to help strip the armor. My question is whether I should choose either 3 MGs or 1 LBX10 for equipment-destroying/killshot purposes.

My current thinking is that the LBX10 is the better choice because, while the 3 MGs would crit more frequently, I'd have to be a lot closer to the target. Plus, the LBX will also do more damage to armor in the first place.

What do you think?

I'd use the LB10 over the 3 MGs. Its damage is respectable and its recycle allows for twisting/mitigation. With 3 MGs you'd lose that ability to twist for an increase in DPS only against internals. I don't think you have the punch with just a PPC + SSRMs to reliably open a component of your choosing. The LB10 will help make that happen more often.

[travelbug]

Appogee, on 08 November 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Thank you for this very useful guide. I really appreciate the effort you put into it. I've read it end to end 4 times now but I am still confused about what to do with my ShadowHawk...

I have an ERPPC and some Streaks to help strip the armor. My question is whether I should choose either 3 MGs or 1 LBX10 for equipment-destroying/killshot purposes.

My current thinking is that the LBX10 is the better choice because, while the 3 MGs would crit more frequently, I'd have to be a lot closer to the target. Plus, the LBX will also do more damage to armor in the first place.

What do you think?

the 3mg is a good support weapon, the lbx is both a main and support weapon. in terms of versatility, the lbx wins of course but the 3mg is extremely effective for its dps/weight ratio.
if you can fit the lbx id go for that. if you lack space, 3mg is the obvious choice.

[Appogee]

Thanks guys. I can fit the LBX if I drop the engine down from 300 to 280 and take off the AMS.

I don't like to take the engine down. I could change the ERPPC to ERL to save 2 tons, I suppose.

[Selfish]

Appogee, on 08 November 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Thanks guys. I can fit the LBX if I drop the engine down from 300 to 280 and take off the AMS.

I don't like to take the engine down. I could change the ERPPC to ERL to save 2 tons, I suppose.

I wouldn't want to downgrade the engine either. You should be able to fit an LB10 onto the 2H if you don't rely on the heavy energy aspect. You can even upgrade to an AC/10 (3 ton), 3 SSRM2s (3 ton + BAP), and an Mlas for the same weight/engine range.

[Selfish]

Gonna give this sucker a bump. Not much new for crits given the latest patch. So some fun stuff from the XML files is in order!

- UAV's deal 5 collision damage. Enemy jumped on your head? You know you want to.
- Jump Jets have 'damaged' effects. As they get destroyed your JJ plumes will change!
- The time it takes for certain ammos to visibly cook is different! Average is 5 seconds for a full detonation effect, but some are even as high as 6s (AC/2 Ammo) or low as 2.5s (NARC Ammo). This probably has no effect on actual cook times.

[zudukai]

Lasers and crits?

[Selfish]

Sending this thread to the front. There haven't been changes for crits, or weapons in general, in the past couple patches.

[Sandpit]

I wish this were mandatory reading for players

[Kaeb Odellas]

One thing I want to add that wasn't mentioned is that I believe you don't actually have to take internal damage on a component for an item to be destroyed. If a weapon impact removes all the armor from a component, the game triggers a crit roll, and then applies all the damage from that attack to an item if successful.

On one occasion a weapon impact (PPC I think) managed to destroy all the armor from one of my components without dealing any damage to the internal structure, yet I still lost an item (either a heatsink or weapon) in that component. This was before they added the 15% crit damage transfer to internals. It seem like a crit roll occurs when all the armor is removed from the targeted component, and if successful, deals the weapon's damage to that component regardless of how much of the damage was applied to armor (in my particular case, all of it).



EDIT: I can confirm that this is the case.



I hit the Centurion's left arm with exactly 20 machine gun rounds at point blank range to reduce its armor to 30 points. I then hit it 3 times with my PPC, which stripped the armor entirely without damaging the internals. I then did the same to the right arm. On the final PPC shot, the AC10 was destroyed by a critical hit. The damage was transferred to the internals, causing the arm to go yellow.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 07 January 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Selfish]

Kaeb Odellas, on 07 January 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

One thing I want to add that wasn't mentioned is that I believe you don't actually have to take internal damage on a component for an item to be destroyed. If a weapon impact removes all the armor from a component, the game triggers a crit roll, and then applies all the damage from that attack to an item if successful.

This took a lot of effort. Getting exactly 20 shots out of an MG twice in a row is a headache, and then you have to get a failed crit on the first PPC, and a successful crit on the final PPC. Seriously, thank you!

I'll update the guide. This is a question I've asked many times to devs, ask the devs, and support, but never got an answer to. It just fell by the wayside before testing grounds was implemented. I'm still not sure if you're not actually dealing damage to the internals because of how component HP is calculated behind the scenes, but you answered the big question. If you expose internals with a weapon, how much of that damage gets applied in a crit?

I'll update the guide and link to your post.

Edited by Selfish, 07 January 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[SgtKinCaiD]

I don't know if the answer has already been given (i can't find any hint on the forums) but do HS in the engine add 10 HP as well ?

[Will HellFire]

Thank you!

[Selfish]

SgtKinCaiD, on 29 January 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

I don't know if the answer has already been given (i can't find any hint on the forums) but do HS in the engine add 10 HP as well ?

The answer is yes, but I can't answer exactly how they populate or interact with the crit table. I'm not sure if you need to destroy the Engine before they are counted, or if they just exist with the engine and whatever 2 open crit slots in the CT (if filled). I'm also not sure if stored DHS transfer their crit buffer into the side torsos if using an XL. The application of this is rather esoteric, but I looked into it some for Science!

I figured this out from using an older iteration of Machine Guns (which had a reliable CDPS but no real damage) and timing how long it took to clear out an AS7-D's CT of items. The heat sinks not only were destroyed separately at around the expected times (so they aren't magically destroyed with the engine itself), but the 2 Mlas in its CT were always the last to go. The rough theory is that an AS7-D with a STD 350 (4 stored DHS) will have a buffer of ~55 HP (Four 10 HP DHS and the 15 HP engine) and up to ~18/20 crit size (6 engine, four DHS at 3 each). Apparently storing heat sinks just creates 'virtual' crit space. The 2 Mlas in there will each have close to a 1/20 chance of a crit even landing on it!

[SgtKinCaiD]

Thanks !

[zudukai]

Selfish, on 30 January 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

Apparently storing heat sinks just creates 'virtual' crit space. The 2 Mlas in there will each have close to a 1/20 chance of a crit even landing on it!

so in other words; CT ammo = safe.

[Selfish]

zudukai, on 31 January 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

so in other words; CT ammo = safe.

Only if you buffer the {Scrap} out of it, and even then you're still incredibly vulnerable to crit-seeking weapons. Four MGs, for example, could clear you of everything in a couple seconds.

[stjobe]

Selfish, on 30 January 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

for Science!

For Science!

[Selfish]

Bumping this. Just a heads up that it may have incorrect data. I haven't been in the game for the past couple patch cycles, but I don't suspect anything drastic has changed. Will run it through the diffchecker when I can to verify.

[Deathlike]

I wanted to post/bump this because I kinda need this looked into.

I think the "Ammo Consumption" route has changed. I'm not sure if its the mech, the sequence, or something special (it's AMS ammo) that's causing it, but let me explain...

I'm running the Thunderbolt-9S and have 2 tons of AMS ammo. One of the tons of ammo is in the head, the other ton is in the torso (not telling you which, and don't ask me why).

In a particular game, I got the torso AMS ammo shot off, but I only went from something like ~1500 (it was between 1000 and 2000) AMS bullets to 1000 instead of a straight deduction of 1000 AMS bullets as expected. This implies that ammo was being consumed from my torso instead of the head.

I remember something similar to this occurring when the ammo monitor was working one day. It suggest that ammo consumption didn't work the way as described... I believe it HAS CHANGED... possibly for the purpose of generating a GREATER chance of ammo explosions. Too bad I can't remember the exact details, but that is what I believe has happened.

Please look into it... it could be a special case for AMS, but I think ammo location consumption HAS CHANGED though.