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Trial Puging


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#1 Delvish

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

So ... I haven't played the game since a week before thanksgiving.

Reading the forums is ... about normal. But one thing that I noticed was the same small group of players who do two things: PUG, and complain that the dreaded "pre-made" is why they lose all the time.

The latest myth being put forth is that "bad teams" are not using the 8v8 queue because they can't "hang" and are once again "stomping" PUGs.

So I thought ... right ... lets see about that. Use my "free" account which hasn't been used since OB started, and PUG in trial mechs to the 2mm C-Bills that would allow you to buy a commando. Not only would this let me see how bad this "pre-made" menace was, I'd also get that "new player experience" thing (Sort of, see comments at the end).

And by PUG I mean: Click the launch button. No TS3, no grouping.

First 15 games: The 3xERPPC Awesome:


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Huh. That wasn't so bad. In fact, I kinda liked this trial mech (as an experienced player - see comments at end)

Next 5 games, the Jenner

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I was going to do 10 games but ... couldn't. This is just a horrible mech.

Next 7 games: The Cataphract

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Sadly, on game 23 I got the 4fps bug and had to reboot. Otherwise ... I kinda like this mech too.

Time? A little less than 3 hours.

The Verdict?

Erm. I'm carrying basically a 1:1 win/loss and a positive k/d in trial mechs during US prime time. Seriously, stop blaming the boogyman.

4-man "pre-mades"? Three that I could identify. One was an actual merc corp farming C-Bills and said as much in text chat. They brought atlases. Classy. The other two ... one lost to my random group of PUGers, the other stomped my random group who ran off in random directions to die.

And that's the thing, as always.

The wins? People were using text chat and communicating. We stuck together. We scouted. We won.

The losses? There were half that were good games, we just happened to lose. 2 - 3 damn close down to the wire. The bad ones were where no one typed a word, Rambo'd off, and died.

Oddly enough ... very few AFKs and disconnects.

Now ... this is not to say trial mechs are great for new players. They aren't. Especially with PGI's inability to create a matchmaking system. I used the trial mechs to show that if you're a half-decent player not only can you PUG and do just fine, you could even do it in trial mechs.

If you don't know what you're doing, you're going to overheat, and you're going to get slaughtered. But if you do know how to play ... they're not terrible, except for maybe that Jenner. Ok, the Jenner sucks. 4xML and SHS is just bad; you can really only use 2 of them. And you're too slow to outrun enemy scouts that outgun you. The 3xERPPC awesome is ... quite frankly, awesome. You can deal some serious damage with the thing.

Again though, if PGI was capable of making it so new players would only play new players ... it'd be fine. ALl trial mechs would actually be great games, IMHO.

tl;dr - If you're a PUG, you can do just fine in this game. It takes practice, and there's a learning curve. And when you lose, it wasn't the evil "pre-made" boogyman. It was just a better team and/or better players.

Edited by Delvish, 08 December 2012 - 01:38 AM.


#2 Vermaxx

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

1) Objective people always admit the trial system is not the devil. Some mechs are terrible, the 9M being a major issue ONLY BECAUSE DHS were given to us at less than they should be.

2) True, 4man teams are not the boogeyman...if you take the lead and can motivate your pug team. Most people won't do this, can't do this, or don't want to constantly be "The Guy."

3) You are not a new player. A new account didn't make an objective test, because you know how to play the game, know how to run a hot mech, know how to respond to many situations, know exactly how long it will take to get a 'real' mech, and don't rage out over things and make snap decisions...like quitting.

You are entirely correct, trials are not the end of life. They are a miserable way for new people to walk in the door and learn MWO, and then have to continue using until they can earn enough to buy something customizable.

And, I am going to go on a limb here and assume most new people, the ACTUAL new people MWO needs to survive, aren't going to be as close to positive on win/loss AND k/d after 14 matches. It is going to take them longer than you to buy anything. Given we already said they have less patience, they are potentially out the door by then.

#3 Iwaslost

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

Just wanted to log in and say that I too fell for the Awesome. It kicks ***. Those ErPPCs dish out the hurt at range and those SSRMs can stave off the lights and soften anything else up.

#4 Delvish

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostVermaxx, on 07 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

1) Objective people always admit the trial system is not the devil. Some mechs are terrible, the 9M being a major issue ONLY BECAUSE DHS were given to us at less than they should be.

2) True, 4man teams are not the boogeyman...if you take the lead and can motivate your pug team. Most people won't do this, can't do this, or don't want to constantly be "The Guy."

3) You are not a new player. A new account didn't make an objective test, because you know how to play the game, know how to run a hot mech, know how to respond to many situations, know exactly how long it will take to get a 'real' mech, and don't rage out over things and make snap decisions...like quitting.

You are entirely correct, trials are not the end of life. They are a miserable way for new people to walk in the door and learn MWO, and then have to continue using until they can earn enough to buy something customizable.

And, I am going to go on a limb here and assume most new people, the ACTUAL new people MWO needs to survive, aren't going to be as close to positive on win/loss AND k/d after 14 matches. It is going to take them longer than you to buy anything. Given we already said they have less patience, they are potentially out the door by then.


You seemed to miss the point, and didn't read the part where I pretty much said exactly what you just said?

My real purpose was to dismiss the 4-man boogyman myth propagated by not new players as the excuse for why they lose.

The ones I'm talking about are the same ones who have made post after post since closed beta. Doing so in trial mechs just seemed like the way to pound that nail home. I'm quite sure I could have actually done a little better in my own mechs on my founder's account (and several of those players are founders). Their latest spin on this is what I stated.

And I agree at the end re: new players, but the problem isn't the mechs themselves ... it's the (lack of a) matchmaking system.

Edit to add: Oh, and not once was I "The guy" - I let other people take the lead.

Edited by Delvish, 07 December 2012 - 09:37 PM.


#5 Greyfyl

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

So you did a one night 'test' and determined that everything is ok. And you don't sound biased at all either.

Thanks for clearing this all up.....everyone stop posting about pugs vs premades..Delvish has solved everything.

#6 Delvish

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:38 PM

View PostGreyfyl, on 07 December 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

So you did a one night 'test' and determined that everything is ok. And you don't sound biased at all either.

Thanks for clearing this all up.....everyone stop posting about pugs vs premades..Delvish has solved everything.


What's the next excuse? Please let us know so we can prove that one wrong as well.

#7 GatorG

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:41 PM

I actually see your point and agree, I pug often and sometimes in a trial. That said I would like to see a system where player could take a loan of up to say 10 million C-Bills to buy a mech. After that they would keep 25% of the winnings (my original thought was enough to cover R&R and 10%, but I like the 25% suggestion better), until the loan is paid. It gives people the ability to get into a mech and the mech lab earlier. Although, it is possible that they should not be able to take the loan until they have played 10 matches with some type of notification from the beginning that the option would be become available.

#8 Belkor

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:45 PM

We're all waiting for the phase 3 of the match maker which should help greatly. Trial mechs do need the ability to be customized though.

#9 Rannos

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

Good work but you should have streamed it or something so all the idiots couldn't nitpick your evidence into the dirt.
That said, anyone just joining this game really needs to be part of a group to not have their first few hours be an unbearable slog. Actually, having solo'd myself a rare few times (mostly to test things out,) I don't know how anyone can have any fun puging it. Its just not nearly as fun to play this game without a group to joke around with.

#10 Delvish

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:19 AM

45 games ...

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Ima buy me an Atlas soon! :ph34r:

#11 Trystan Thorne

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

You must be very lucky regarding the PUGs. I was playing during the European prime time yesterday and had 14 losses in a row (I still can't fix that interference on my headset that startet a few day ago and I tried two headsets).
Now I'm someone who don't mind winning or losing, so I still have my fun.

We always had AFKres on our side or some crazy people taking a Jenner into a fight with 3 heavys.
But even in organized PUGs we lost the matches, so I can still understand some people complaining even if I don't agree,

#12 Elizander

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:53 AM

I'm no longer experiencing this 4-man premade issue unlike prior to when 8-man teams could drop. Once in awhile I'll still be in a 0-8 or 1-8 blowout game, but it's so few and far in between that I don't even remember them anymore. I believe that the current pug scene is fine for now, but you can't please everyone. :ph34r:

#13 MagicHamsta

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:09 AM

View PostTrystan Thorne, on 08 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

You must be very lucky regarding the PUGs. I was playing during the European prime time yesterday and had 14 losses in a row (I still can't fix that interference on my headset that startet a few day ago and I tried two headsets).
Now I'm someone who don't mind winning or losing, so I still have my fun.

We always had AFKres on our side or some crazy people taking a Jenner into a fight with 3 heavys.
But even in organized PUGs we lost the matches, so I can still understand some people complaining even if I don't agree,


You must be the very unlucky...
(.-.)

988 games:
Delvish has basically made 1/3 of the monies me currently has in just 45 games.
>:
Me suppose my ~90k rearm/repair bill isn't helping.
(._.)
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Siggy be from closed beta.

#14 Gnuz

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:47 AM

View PostDelvish, on 07 December 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

...And I agree at the end re: new players, but the problem isn't the mechs themselves ... it's the (lack of a) matchmaking system, an adequate tutorial, doco and NPE in general.


I'd say "fixed that for you" but it feels trite.

+1





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