29 replies to this topic

[Croaker13]

So, if anything, the inclusion of ECM seems to have divided the community. Some love it, some like it, and some hate it.
However, I can't really determine how many people are on each side, and the only other poll I found is more about possible changes.

Without further ado: What do people who exclusively or nearly exclusively PUG think about it?

The reason I only ask puggers, is that ECM seems to affect puggers and premades in totally different ways. Premades seem to work with it (at least they seem to me to be more generally positive about it), but then again, they have better tools for doing so - like being able to tailor their loadouts to the rest of the group, voice comm, etc.
You can state your reason why you like it or not, but I'm personally mostly interested in the numbers


Me, I don't like it (and no, I have never ever played a streakcat - I'm a Dragon kinda guy).

[You have probably read all the following before, so feel free to skip it]
The main reason being, that since I PUG I can't really base my loadout on the assumption that someone else will bring the TAG or ECM (unless I want to be at a great disadvantage when no one did), so I either have to bring it myself or scrap LRM's and SSRM's, and rely solely on direct-fire weapons.
Even disregarding the fact that not everyone is Robin Hood's more accurate second cousin , and not everyone else has perfect ping and FPS, I personally liked LRM's, even when I just got blasted off the surface of the earth - because that usually meant that I had exposed myself way too much.
Just my two cents.

Edited by Croaker13, 07 December 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[Tex Arcana]

I agree.

[GravityDog]

I Use mostly LRM in pug and 4 man groups. ECM seems OK to me.

Mostly it means relying only on only one weapon system (LRM or SSRM) is not the best idea add some ML or something.

[Jim Dean]

I don't use missiles on my builds, so it doesn't affect me to the full extent. I agree that it could use some tweaks, which it will probably get regardless, but it mixes things up and requires that you pay more attention during a fight, which adds a welcome level of complexity to game and promotes communication. I like it ok.

Since the last patch my puggin' experience has vastly improved.

Edited by Jim Dean, 07 December 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[Jabilac]

I think integrated VOIP would really help solve some of the issues we as PUG's are experiencing. Also I would like if the game funneled you into a group. Drop in a random PUG and then that is your group that you drop with until you leave the group or someone else does. I know this is a team based game that really shines when playing as a team but the system doesn't allow an easy way to get into a group with voice chat.

ECM is a little excessive when you have 3 or more ECM mechs on a given team. I think TAG needs to work automatically when you target someone or at least automatically stay locked on a target after you have established a TAG while the target remains in your LOS. ECM, BAP, and AMS automatically work without any additional input from the pilot why does TAG require constant active tracking but your targeting computer will track an enemy no matter where they go as long as you don't lose LOS. Why not link TAG to your targeting computer after a few seconds of TAGing and allow my targeting computer to keep the TAG laser on target.

[Ryvucz]

Personally, I'd like to see an integration in the match maker that sticks ECM equipped mechs against other ECM equipped mechs.

A match where one side has ECMs and the other doesn't, gets ugly fast.

But other than that, loving it.

"Why hello there streaker Cat, you want to shoot me with all of those streaks, don't you? Oh, I'm afraid you won't be getting a lock on me right now, so I'll just have to kill you with this small laser, slowly, as you attempt to run away."

Paybacks a [REDACTED]

[p4r4g0n]

I don't believe the Devs ever said ECM was the counter to the streakcat or LRMs. However, the community appears to have concluded this based on the effect ECM has had on their game play vis a vis missile use.

At this time, I cannot conclusively say that I dislike ECM in its current form but I do dislike the fact that more often than not, the strategic options for a PUG game seem to have devolved into rush to brawl or rush to cap. To some extent, this is the result of choices of the players themselves when faced with ECM as I'm sure that there are other strategic options but these may be hard to implement in the absence of good communications / coordination in PUG matches.

Also, the strategy adopted is inherently determined by the player running the ECM mech if there is only 1 ECM mech on your side and you better pray that player knows what he is doing.

This means that as a solo PUGger, your game options are:

1. Stick to the ECM mech if you don't have an ECM mech and go with whatever plan that player has chosen; OR
2. Get your own ECM to make sure your team has one and also enable you to use SSRMs

Since there is no pre-planning before a drop, I expect every solo PUGger (or a large majority of them) to eventually pilot an ECM mech.

I would not be surprised if most of the benefits are eventually tweaked to restrict them to just the ECM mech and a small benefit granted to allied mechs under the ECM umbrella.

At this time, I'm in the undecided camp as far as ECM is concerned.

VOIP, integrated or otherwise, is not really the solution to ECM. No game has 100% VOIP adoption even if integrated into the game.

[Croaker13]

p4r4g0n, on 07 December 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

This means that as a solo PUGger, your game options are:

1. Stick to the ECM mech if you don't have an ECM mech and go with whatever plan that player has chosen; OR
2. Get your own ECM to make sure your team has one and also enable you to use SSRMs

Since there is no pre-planning before a drop, I expect every solo PUGger (or a large majority of them) to eventually pilot an ECM mech.

Or you can use a loadout that doesn't require a lock-on; but that is still a restriction that IMO shouldn't be there at all.

[Blair]

ECM has been a net positive, in my opinion, for one specific reason: Since it's inception, I haven't been in a single PUG where both sides just ran at eachother guns blazing. People are utilizing cover, fast scouts, and sneak attacks. Sometimes a group of 3 ECM 'Mechs will slip by and cap while the enemy team is chasing down a couple of lights.

It's made it clear to the playerbase that tactics are necessary to compete in the game.

That being said, there are definitely opportunities for improvement. Right now it does feel a bit overpowered. I'd like to see either the 'cloaking' range reduced slightly, or additional ways to counter it. Overall, though, I'm very pleased with my gameplay experience since ECM has been added.

[Infernus1986]

I think the ECM is pretty good addition to the game the only change I would make would be to its cost and repair cost.
The ECM is a pretty effective component and also very high tech using it and losing it in a fight should cost you a good chunk of change, just like the other high tech stuff does.

[elsie]

This is what a lot of teams look like now:



At least the ones that don't go running around to get picked off.


elsie

[Horned Bull]

I pug only and I love ECM. It made raven viable and dethroned[color="#555555"] streakcat.[/color]

[Delego]

I liked the thought to bring more electronic warfare to the game, but ECM feels way to dominant at the moment.
It can basically dictate the game and for me this is to much for one tactical choice. Suggestions like decreasing necessary range to detect and to the area affected could balance it IMHO.

Currently it doesn't feel like playing a MechWarrior but rather Splinter Cell Robot Edition... Definitely don't like this atm

[Nooee]

Being deaf I am unable to do groups, so I always Pug, I pilot an Atlas D DC with ECM. This allows me to use the LRM's and remain hidden to the opposition until I get jammed. The biggest problem that I see with fellow solo pilots is not understanding how the ECM works. Also starting a match and having 2 players not move is a royal loss.

[p4r4g0n]

Nooee, on 07 December 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Being deaf I am unable to do groups, so I always Pug, I pilot an Atlas D DC with ECM. This allows me to use the LRM's and remain hidden to the opposition until I get jammed. The biggest problem that I see with fellow solo pilots is not understanding how the ECM works. Also starting a match and having 2 players not move is a royal loss.

You can still group, check this thread out.

[Firesteel]

I would like to see some of its affects lowered. Instead of not locking, it should take 3x-4x as long to lock missiles. I also think BAP should enhance the range you can detect an ECM cloaked mech, since right now the sweetspot for target sharing with ECM is too low IMO for effective communication.

[Nooee]

p4r4g0n, on 07 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

You can still group, check this thread out.

Thanks for the link, done.

[Elder Thorn]

elsie, on 07 December 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

This is what a lot of teams look like now:



At least the ones that don't go running around to get picked off.


elsie

and when exactly has this been different? Except that 1 or 2 more people decided to run arround to get picked off.

I think ECM itself is fine, but i agree, that there should be a slightly improved drawback to it, like repair costs for example.

And maybe it should have a hardpoint, so people can aim for it.

Edited by Elder Thorn, 07 December 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[Whyfighter]

I like ECM as is, but I agree that some other counters or tweaking might be necessary. It doesn't make you invincible, and it isn't game-breaking. It's just different; it's quickly forcing change in how pugs play the game. In my experience, pugs recognize that ECM is pretty great, even if they don't know what it is or does, they just notice that it screws up their targeting and that it keeps them from getting hit with missiles all the time.
I see two things happening in pugs: clumping around a slower, ECM-equipped 'mech, which I think is a huge positive, and focus fire more often directed to ECM 'mechs.
Clumping keeps the team together for better cohesion and makes the Last Action Hero pilots think twice about running off into the sunset, and I think once it becomes more widely known to casual players what the capabilities of ECM are we will see more lasers, SRMs, and autocannons shoved exclusively into ECM 'mechs. The effect of this will give ECM-equipped 'mech pilots a quasi-leadership role in determining where best to position the clump to win the match and ensure their own survival, i.e. actually using their brains to play the game.
After learning to how to play again, changes on the field should evolve naturally to where pug players are more situationally aware of where their team and the enemy are and then we can move past the simplistic clumping strategy around ECM.

[sycocys]

I don't often run into issues with not having ecm when I pug. Yes it has changed the tactics, but I think for the better on the whole. I don't use it yet, and it about 60-75% equipped, and easy enough to not have to worry about with any of my builds. For pug play I don't think its done much in the way of really disrupting anything but locked-missile boats - which can still be effective if you change your tactics up.

Past that, I think it will become well more than well balanced with the inclusion of future modules, it may be a little op all around right now against newer/solo players, but it's easy enough to beat out I think.