It's just awful!
#141
Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:21 AM
the other one id have to say that is pretty bad is the supernova. too much heat not enough sink.
#142
Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:16 AM
I just call them targets
#143
Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:24 AM
#144
Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:28 AM
If you really want to find a Mech to villify, then find one that has no business on any battlefield at all.
#145
Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:07 AM
That is where they star.
I object to the mechs with more internals than armour!
#146
Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:10 AM
#147
Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:13 AM
#148
Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:03 AM
A common city lance that I was fond of as a GM when the players were tasked with hitting the Cappellan cities was 2 Urbies and 2 LRM 20 Carriers for fire support. For about 7 million (the typical price of a non xl 70ton mech or around the average price of an xl equipped 35-40 ton mech) you bring 2 AC 20s and 6 LRM 20s to the battlefield.
That Lance has for example 304 points of armor collectively compared to an Archer of the same eras 208 points has 6 LRM 20s versus the Archers 2 LRM 20s, and collectively you are matching up the Archers 4 MLs versus a pair of AC 20s and you are doing all this for about the same amount of money.
If you look at an Urban Mech in a duel situation or where the numbers on both sides have to be even it tends to do poorly and its a poor choice for a general utility mech but when you are starting to look at using infantry in your mech forces to augment your firepower in relatively static areas Urbies are quick cheap way to stiffen Infantry up at a price that is very competitive with infantry or vehicle choices. When you are looking at budgeting for Battalion and Regimental sized forces (the biggest the players ever got to in the game) those C- Bill Decisions quickly add up.
#150
Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:39 PM
Sleepy Head, on 14 May 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:
/flamesuit
Wow, talk about balls. I'm not a fan of the MadCat, but my dislike is based more in tactics than in the design's basic unacceptability. And to answer the questions that this statement might bring up, it moves too fast and hasn't got enough staying power for a main-line heavy such as it is. It needs deeper ammo bins and more heat sinks for it to be a true Clan terror. Take a look at a Nova Cat Prime as a good example of what a Clan heavy should look like, and even it's got issues that need addressed.
#151
Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:42 PM
slade the grey fox, on 16 May 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:
If you really want to find a Mech to villify, then find one that has no business on any battlefield at all.
While I agree with you Slade, you and I both know a certain Lyran Archer fanatic who does that very thing and is incredibly successful doing it. I think it's all a matter of how well a pilot knows his design and it's limitations.
#152
Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:09 PM
That's why I mentioned the Ostmann mechs, Which still have their own charm. Kinda like the Urbie.
#153
Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:34 PM
So malign my little Urbie not! The Trashcans shall rise and make you spout new ventilation in your shiny new mechs!
#154
Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:49 AM
Kip Wilson, on 15 May 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:
People who criticize the urbie usually expect to take one on in a heavy or assault 'mech. Sure, lets do BV vs BV, your one assault against my 7 urbies. Maybe we should do c-bill vs c-bill. Great, your one heavy vs my 5 urbies. Not to mention there are very few 'mechs that can take on an opponent twice or more its weight and have more than a chance at hades of surviving. That's the Urbie's MO. Who needs speed anyway? Urbies are built for defense. Not to mention my personal variant mounting a sniper artillery piece really has no need for speed
And with those five sm. lasers, even if you run you will never generate enough heat to activate the TSM to get that 32 point kick, not until the enemy has hit your engine once or twice at least .
#155
Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:59 AM
Oh and god I almost forgot the all time worst machine, the Vulcan. Not only does it look like a holocaust survivor it has about the worst weapon loadout ever. The only good thing it carries is the med. laser, otherwise you get the AC/2, MG, and flamer. It probably kicks *** against regular infantry, but it better run from any vehicles and Mechs barring a Stinger or Locust.
Edited by Tincan Nightmare, 17 May 2012 - 01:00 AM.
#156
Posted 17 May 2012 - 02:10 AM
Yes, the Urbie is very specialised. If you're building an army to defend a planet, with mostly units that will just be stationed on round-the-clock readiness around particular points of strategic importance, then specialised units are usually the most cost-effective approach. Garrison-type duty also happens to be where smaller units shine since they can cover more places at once and it doesn't really matter that you can't fit as much oomph in each dropship.
Edited by Owl Cutter, 17 May 2012 - 02:12 AM.
#157
Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:56 PM
Owl Cutter, on 17 May 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:
Yah but the point is what if your a unit that performs more than just urban garrison duty? Does it become cost effective then to buy a large number of Urbanmechs at their low cost just so they sit in a hangar when you deploy for a raid or open field engagement? And even in an urban combat setting, its slow speed would still be a handicap, such as beating an enemy to a potential ambush site or catching raiders intent on hitting a target and getting out. The Urbanmech has a good punch for a light Mech due to its AC/10, but it also sacrifices the ability to perform any other duty but defense in urban or some other constricted terrain. And when most Assault Mechs are faster, it may not have the mobility to stop an enemy from reaching its objective even then. And fitting as much oomph in a dropship is critical since you have limited space, you must get the most you can out of that tonnage, not the reverse. Now for some planetary militia tasked with holding a planets cities in an all out invasion, yah the Urbie is a good pick, but probably not a good choice for a mercenary company looking to get varied contracts.
#158
Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:45 PM
Edited by Akaryu, 17 May 2012 - 08:45 PM.
#159
Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:51 AM
There is a place for forces dedicated to defending [particular strategically important sites on] single planets, maintaining constant readiness and including particular assets existing solely for 1) one role in 2) one kind of combat 3) in one specific place. They do not need to fit into dropships, and they not only do not need to stray far on a tactical scale, but at least some large portion _needs to not_ stray far. As for the Urbie not being able to constitute the entirety of such a force on its own, trying to use that as an argument against it is just audaciously blatant Strawman-bashing.
Edited by Owl Cutter, 18 May 2012 - 12:52 AM.
#160
Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:01 AM
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