226 replies to this topic

[Woodstock]

Darius Bloodblayde, on 14 May 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Whoever said Madcat sucked, should be kicked in the bag, as far as I'm concerned Madcat is one of the most powerful and versatile mechs in the Mechwarrior game....

Versatile ...yes ... ugly? Also yes

Hate the madcat

[Victor Morson]

Christopher Dayson, on 15 May 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

... Why some people persist in thinking 2/3 movement is /EVER/ a good thing is just beyond me. Remove the AC 10, give it a Large Laser. Use saved weight to give it 6/9/6 movement with same armor and add a medium laser. Then it's become good, then it can actually flank people and be a credible threat.

How /anyone/ would let something as slow as a 2/3/2 get behind them is beyond me, infantile grasp of tactics.

I like how despite about 15 posts on the subject you can't understand how this works. In a city, with double blind, you can't see anything around corners. That's the environment Urbanmechs were primarily designed to work in, though they can be made to work in extremely rocky terrain for similar reasons.

You can't avoid what you can't see until it's too late, basically.

Outside of that, I've had Urbanmechs in a number of Megamek matches and used them quite successfully as hidden vanguards for fragile stuff, like LRM Carriers. If something comes up to try to wreck them at close range, a crouching Urbie hidden AC/20 can make a world of difference, in particular since it's one of the few designs the AC/20 can flip arms on and hit in a 360 degree arc at all times.

Woodstock, on 15 May 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Versatile ...yes ... ugly? Also yes

Hate the madcat

I don't understand anyone who thinks the Mad Cat is ugly, but, that's subjective. My biggest problem with it is how overplayed it is.

That said, objectively a case cannot be made for it's loadouts being bad. It's just too good at pretty much any kind of fighting you want, depending on the variant. There might be other 'mechs more optimized to your taste, but you are probably never going to laugh at a Mad Cat if you see one on the other guy's team.

If you see he's brought a lance of Dragons and Shadow Hawks, however, you're probably to at least tell them how sorry you are.

EDIT: PGI is going to have it's work cut out for it implementing the Mad Cat, as 99.9% of the Clan players will probably fight tooth and nail to get one.

Edited by Victor Morson, 15 May 2012 - 02:08 PM.

[Kasiagora]

Don't know why all the hate for the Charger. It's a capable mech that's never done me too wrong. Slamming enemies into buildings, off of cliffs, off the map a couple of times even, and then punching and kicking the snot out of someone when they're on the ground is great. Once you've knocked them down if you're near the torso it's pretty easy to get a kick to the head, and even standing a punch to the head is only a 1 in 6 chance. Every time the mech falls the pilot has to make a roll not to get hurt himself, and the same for every head shot. Sure I've missed a few times and run off the map once myself, off a cliff once or twice, and into buildings more times than I can count (pavement's not nice to mechs!) but it's part of the risk. And a whole lot of the fun!

I think in the game I'll probably take the Dragon just because of how much people have been putting them down on the forums. I've never been a Dragon fan personally, but my brother and a lot of my friends have used the Grand Dragon to great effect against me in the past. I'd like to see what I can do with it to redeem its name a bit. Probably just swap out that AC/5 for a large laser or something if there's a variant on the game with an energy hardpoint on the arm.

Edit: Oh yeah, worst mech? I've never been a fan of any of the Ostmann Industries mechs. I'll go with them.

Edited by Kasiagora, 15 May 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[SilentSooYun]

JM6-S JagerMech: UbanMech's big, ugly sister. Armed with pop-guns and armoured with used crisp packets. But it's good on heat and enough ammo to stay in for a while... assuming it hides behind a real Mech, or possibly a big rock.

RFL-3N Rifleman: At least it's not a JagerMech. Otherwise, too hot, tin-foil armour, no arm actuators makes it nearly worthless in close combat. About the only good thing I can say about it is that at least it's ammo bin will be empty long before the armour is breached. Oh, and it's pretty.

[Zynk]

Clan mech's as they make all IS mech's obsolete.

[Mistwolf]

For his size the 1A1 charger is awful. The argument that "well he has good physical attacks" is bullshit. All mechs that size with a working hand, will do the exact same damage. Look at the Victor or the Thug, they can do physical too but have actual weapons to back it up. That is a mech designed out of an idea "Lets make a fast assault mech." It didn't work out, it is a failed concept. Hell, a 20 ton Locust would beat it cause the 1A1 would never get close enough. He doesn't even have good armour for it's size. Now add an XL engine or slow the speed and now we have a platform to design a decent mech, but even then, we are talking about a total, ground up rework so that can hardly be taken into consideration.

The Urbie's slow speed and weak armour is crippling, but there is a use for it in ambushes and defense roles. An AC10 on a light is, at least powerful. Stupid, but powerful.

But there are lots of bad designs. Anything with an AC2 automatically is bad. That is absolutely the worst weapon you can put on a mech, no damage, ammo reliant, and heavier than a large laser. (The only exception is the Kraken(Bane) who has 10 of the damn things and they are ultras allowing double rate fire. So 20-40 dam at extreme range is at least passable.)

The other thing no one has mentioned is OS launchers. The most serious offense of this is the QKD-5M Quickdraw. QKD-4G was passable, though a bit under-gunned and armoured and those rear firing lasers were just bad, but the 5M upped the ante on suck when they made the SRM4 OS to make room for CASE. Down grade it to an SRM2 streak with 1 ton ammo, drop a half tone of that new FF armour, anything would have been better than turning the SRM4 into the Battlemech equivalent of a musket.

[Rasmus]

SilentSooYun, on 15 May 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

JM6-S JagerMech: UbanMech's big, ugly sister. Armed with pop-guns and armoured with used crisp packets. But it's good on heat and enough ammo to stay in for a while... assuming it hides behind a real Mech, or possibly a big rock.

This.... total waste of bv.

[Indyfatigable]

King Crab. Too easy to disable the autocannon or cook the ammo before it even gets in range. It's hard enough to justify one AC20 on a mech that slow, two is just pointless. A close second is the Fafnir, never did understand the appeal of a heavy gauss. Annhilator is probably third, at least all that LBX is good for critical fishing.

If I recall, there is a charger variant with an LBX 20 and triple strength myomer. I underestimated it once, never again.

Edited by Indyfatigable, 15 May 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[Melissia]

LackofCertainty, on 15 May 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

I don't like the idea of PPCs in an urbie, because the enemy will catch you, and that minimum range will ruin your plans.

Yes, but that's tabletop, not in any video game yet made. Certainly I see no evidence of it in this game.

[Kip Wilson]

Anything Clan. All that stuff is just for the munchkins. i prefer 'mechs with character and the Urbie and Changer have got it in droves. Gimme a 5 sm laser charger with some TSM on it and lets see how much you think it sucks when im running around at 97kph doing 32pt kicks and 15pt laser blasts.

People who criticize the urbie usually expect to take one on in a heavy or assault 'mech. Sure, lets do BV vs BV, your one assault against my 7 urbies. Maybe we should do c-bill vs c-bill. Great, your one heavy vs my 5 urbies. Not to mention there are very few 'mechs that can take on an opponent twice or more its weight and have more than a chance at hades of surviving. That's the Urbie's MO. Who needs speed anyway? Urbies are built for defense. Not to mention my personal variant mounting a sniper artillery piece really has no need for speed

[Outlaw]

SilentSooYun, on 15 May 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

JM6-S JagerMech: UbanMech's big, ugly sister. Armed with pop-guns and armoured with used crisp packets. But it's good on heat and enough ammo to stay in for a while... assuming it hides behind a real Mech, or possibly a big rock.

RFL-3N Rifleman: At least it's not a JagerMech. Otherwise, too hot, tin-foil armour, no arm actuators makes it nearly worthless in close combat. About the only good thing I can say about it is that at least it's ammo bin will be empty long before the armour is breached. Oh, and it's pretty.

They are not intended for getting into the thick of it, they are for better or worse AAA platforms, hell even some of their special equipment rules have them saddled with an Anti-Aircraft specific targeting system, and when you are defending an installation from air attack, armor is not a priority, volume of fire (with flak) is.

Also the nay sayers of the Mackie must have missed the MSK-9H, that thing is particularly brutal.

I cant really say any one design is awful, save for maybe the Quickdraw (though i like it because it has a ton of character). However I will admit im not a fan of Clan Tech just for the fact that it has no character at all.

[William Petersen]

LordDeathStrike, on 15 May 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

other: quadrapalegic mechs aka quads.  they have nil turn speed, low armor, severly lack firepower for weight, and people are drooling ***** fanbois for them none the less.

"Quadrupedal" is the word you seek. "Quadriplegic" is used to describe a paralysis of four limbs. Also, they don't lack turn-speed. Not sure where you're getting that, probably from the same place as you get all your other misinformation about them: your biased imagination. While yes, they can lack firepower for their weight, they can make up that lacking with speed and armour. Your irrational and deep-seated hatred for quads and people who like them suggests to me that you may (or may not) have some serious psychological issues you need to work through.

[sheradin]

movingtarget, on 14 May 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

i dont think it needs a ultra 20 to get 2 shots off on a mech thats not faceing it(might have better luck getting 2 off on an assault class though ) and since it has full torso rotation i can peek alot less of my mech around a corner (or over a roof top)to get my shot off, sure any thing bigger then it will rip it appart in one alpha but will any of the light class mechs fare much better in a urban map? if i play hit and run well i could have a assault waste his time trying to get me while my team (or other urban mechs) pick him appart when he turns to get me

um as far as I can see from the orginal 3025 tro it mentions nothing about the ability to rotate its torso 360 degrees

[Zakatak]

Indyfatigable, on 15 May 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

King Crab. Too easy to disable the autocannon or cook the ammo before it even gets in range. It's hard enough to justify one AC20 on a mech that slow, two is just pointless. A close second is the Fafnir, never did understand the appeal of a heavy gauss. Annhilator is probably third, at least all that LBX is good for critical fishing.

If I recall, there is a charger variant with an LBX 20 and triple strength myomer. I underestimated it once, never again.

Faffy is one of the most powerful mechs in existence, breh. Nothing between 300-600m of that beast just doesn't survive.

[Omega59er]

Worst mech ever? The Daishi. muahahahaHAHAHAHAHA!

[Goldhawk]

Strap your self into a Flea, and prepare to greet your ancestors. Crap armor, no real weapons to speak of, and just extremely fast.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Any Clan Mech.. The Clans ruined MW becaus ethe games made them so overpowered no one would play IS mechs anymore

[Indyfatigable]

Zakatak, on 15 May 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Faffy is one of the most powerful mechs in existence, breh. Nothing between 300-600m of that beast just doesn't survive.

It relies on the heavy gauss, which just sucks. Past 390 meters, its damage drops below that of a regular gauss, and the increased damage at closer ranges isn't that great since a gauss already exceeds the headcap threshold. Plus you have to make a piloting check every time you use it. Plus you can't put it in the arms, meaning your firing arc is limited. Plus its only got 4 ammos per ton.
In a turret battle it's not bad. Against a clever opponent with anything faster than an Urbanmech, it's target practice.

Edited by Indyfatigable, 15 May 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[Name140704]

Worst 'mech ever is the Ostscout with a Tag unit and that's it. It literally can't fire back.

[Sassori]

If it's a double blind, the Urbie won't know where to go either.

Infantry can and will move in any direction they want to including through buildings. They also do damage by groups, not in .32 damage groups. A mech with 4 tons of ammo risks internal damage from infantry. Infantry also can and do have jump packs. They also have motorcycles. Not all infantry moves 1.

An Atlas in a city doesn't necessarily care about the buildings. It just walks through them. Getting to within 9 hexes of anything just means the Urbie is even more useless.

I don't know what sort of crazy urban maps you played with, but most of them have actual fire lanes called streets and not everything is point blank range either. By sacrificing the range of the AC 10 and the additional armor then the mech is giving up the one advantage it might have had.

P.S. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it a strawman. The Urbanmech still fails and throwing an AC/20 onto it just makes it fail harder. 2/3 Movement just doesn't cut it as walking in a straight line doesn't generate pilot rolls, oh, and the 20 points damage pilot rolls? Even a green IS mechwarrior makes that over 50% of the time.