15 replies to this topic

[Mvrck]

Recently while playing with some friends, we were discussing how weak light Mechs were going to be once the net code had been fixed and collision had been put back in. With Lights actually being able to be hit by other mechs, and their pilots not being able to blindly run at full speed into enemy Assault Mechs without any consequences, it might be worth implementing some sort of Active Camouflage system for them. This would help reintroduce some survivability, but at the cost of a trade off in armament or engine size.

I've included a possible proof of concept, taken from the style of a popular and successful active camo design in another game series, that I'm sure PGI is quite familiar with. Unfortunately, I didn't have a screenshot of a Light to try to apply it to, so I used a screenshot a friend took of my Atlas instead. Hopefully this gives PGI a decent starting base to work with on how to implement this idea.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Spoiler

[Ninja Snarl]

So... the Atlas is training to win the heavyweight boxing championship?

Yeah, I went there.

[Mvrck]

Ninja Snarl, on 08 December 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

So... the Atlas is training to win the heavyweight boxing championship?

Yeah, I went there.

=/ Please give useful feedback. I feel like this is a good homage to another classic game series (one that also features giant robots!) and would be pretty necessary to keeping balance between Lights and other mechs viable once the netcode is fixed.

Edited by Mvrck, 08 December 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[Harddown]

Personally I can't wait for them to fix the netcode. I'm tired of dealing with lag armor. It wasn't terrible before, they just needed to fix collision. Of course, they fixed collision by just completely getting rid of it, which makes lights practically invincible. I can't wait until all these under-experienced pilots get their legs shot out from under them once the netcode gets fixed.

[Mvrck]

Harddown, on 08 December 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Personally I can't wait for them to fix the netcode. I'm tired of dealing with lag armor. It wasn't terrible before, they just needed to fix collision. Of course, they fixed collision by just completely getting rid of it, which makes lights practically invincible. I can't wait until all these under-experienced pilots get their legs shot out from under them once the netcode gets fixed.

Why would you pilot a light after the fix though? Cicada's can do everything Lights do, but better. Even certain Centurions and Awesomes can go fast enough to scout effectively and are no where near as squishy as Light mechs. Lights will need something to keep them from getting one shot as soon as code is fixed.

[DeadlyNerd]

How can we give useful feedback when this looks like a troll post .

But ok, NO TY. It's bad enough they can circlestrafe you and squirrel around in these small maps.
Imagine being hit from behind and never knowing where what hit you went after that. Oh sure, teamwork. Try teamwork when you can't see a lance of 4 lights standing behind you and relaying targets to LRM boats.

[Harddown]

Mvrck, on 08 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

Why would you pilot a light after the fix though? Cicada's can do everything Lights do, but better. Even certain Centurions and Awesomes can go fast enough to scout effectively and are no where near as squishy as Light mechs. Lights will need something to keep them from getting one shot as soon as code is fixed.

To be fair, they fixed most of the "one shot" issues by turning the Gauss into an actual glass cannon. Now they just need to fix ballistics. Maybe slow them down, or give them a spread, kind of like how SRMs are, instead of being like SSRMs, where all the damage goes to one location.

[Mvrck]

DeadlyNerd, on 08 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

How can we give useful feedback when this looks like a troll post .

But ok, NO TY. It's bad enough they can circlestrafe you and squirrel around in these small maps.
Imagine being hit from behind and never knowing where what hit you went after that. Oh sure, teamwork. Try teamwork when you can't see a lance of 4 lights standing behind you and relaying targets to LRM boats.

I'm not sure what you mean with trolls. Mechwarrior really isn't a fantasy series as far as I know (I've only played both Mercs games). Maybe make it so active camo only works while the Light is going above a certain speed, so if they slow down to attack or stop dead it opens them up to being shot? I don't know if that would defeat the purpose of it too much though.

[Mvrck]

Harddown, on 08 December 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

To be fair, they fixed most of the "one shot" issues by turning the Gauss into an actual glass cannon. Now they just need to fix ballistics. Maybe slow them down, or give them a spread, kind of like how SRMs are, instead of being like SSRMs, where all the damage goes to one location.

Maybe just make Lights take reduced damage against ballistics altogether so they don't lose their effectiveness against heavier mechs. Make it a piloting skill? Or a module unlocked with mech credits or something.

[Harddown]

Really the problem is that lights just don't have enough armor. They should be allowed to carry more armor, because they can't carry as much weapons. Or the other way around. I mean, come on, only 3xS-SRMs on a Commando? Oh, and one lousy laser? That's worthless. A Catapult can carry 4xS-SRMs and two lasers!

[Goreshade]

If PGI would set the cap higher and allow the lights to go there full speed, that would balance it a bit. Currently the Jenner with 300xl and speed tweek is running 12 kph slower then it should be going. I can't imagine what will happen when the spider will come out, probably be nerfed to 160, but its capable of 200 kph with 340 xl engine. FYI, if you have a jenner with 300xl engine, your wasting your money. Purchase the 275xl engine, with speed tweek you will hit the cap. But camo armor is OP, the scouts are better then the mediums, heavies, and assaults. They can equip all the upgrades and fill up their load outs with max engine rating. I hear more people talk about how lights are OP compared to the rest.

[Mvrck]

Harddown, on 08 December 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Really the problem is that lights just don't have enough armor. They should be allowed to carry more armor, because they can't carry as much weapons. Or the other way around. I mean, come on, only 3xS-SRMs on a Commando? Oh, and one lousy laser? That's worthless. A Catapult can carry 4xS-SRMs and two lasers!

Well, I mean they are Light mechs. They're supposed to scout and survive. But they won't be able to because they'll die in two hits. I don't think more armor is the answer (honestly I don't even know if that's a serious post or not). It can't just be about buffing their health pool or giving them more armor though. It needs to be something more abstract.

[Mvrck]

Goreshade, on 08 December 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

If PGI would set the cap higher and allow the lights to go there full speed, that would balance it a bit. Currently the Jenner with 300xl and speed tweek is running 12 kph slower then it should be going. I can't imagine what will happen when the spider will come out, probably be nerfed to 160, but its capable of 200 kph with 340 xl engine. FYI, if you have a jenner with 300xl engine, your wasting your money. Purchase the 275xl engine, with speed tweek you will hit the cap. But camo armor is OP, the scouts are better then the mediums, heavies, and assaults. They can equip all the upgrades and fill up their load outs with max engine rating. I hear more people talk about how lights are OP compared to the rest.

Most are barely passable right now. Only the Raven is really really good cause of ECM making it hard to target (Active Camo would just give it to the other lights without the group benefit keeping it balanced).

[Icenein]

This seems like an interesting idea. Would the camo be ablative, that is to say, that after a certain amount of damage it would no longer function? Perhaps it could have say five points of protection for all parts of your mech above its legs. Would you be able to fire through the adaptive camo?

[Willie Sauerland]

I can't believe I just read through this entire thread.

1. For lights, speed is life.

2. They should be hurting after taking fire - after all, they don't have the armor to withstand many direct hits.

3. Piloting a light requires skill - not the "skillz" we are currently seeing due to bad netcode or lack of knockdown capability.

I look forward to PGIGP actually fixing the netcode and allowing me to knock down a light again. The way it is now is just simply not balanced. I don't mind being beaten by a light pilot - but I want that light pilot to have the requisite skills to do it and not just do it because the game in its current form is significantly handicapped.

So, if you find yourself worrying about the fixes to come, perhaps you shouldn't be in a light. I know this sounds a lot like "L2P" (which I suppose it is in a way), but just because you are playing a light now and racking up kills doesn't mean this is the way the game is supposed to be. The game in its current form (including bugs like removing all but one of the jump jets so you can still jump like before but have less weight for weapons or other items) requires a lack of skills to pilot a light.

The true light pilots are not fearing these things - in fact they are even looking forward to them because they want to be able to shine like they should instead of being lost in all the noise.

And believe me, a light pilot with any skill will be worth his weight in MC. Therefore, no ablative armor, ballistics nerfs (at least for this reason), or whatever need be applied.

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 08 December 2012 - 12:54 PM.

[Alphawolf]

Willie Sauerland, on 08 December 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

I can't believe I just read through this entire thread.

1. For lights, speed is life.

2. They should be hurting after taking fire - after all, they don't have the armor to withstand many direct hits.

3. Piloting a light requires skill - not the "skillz" we are currently seeing due to bad netcode or lack of knockdown capability.

I look forward to PGIGP actually fixing the netcode and allowing me to knock down a light again. The way it is now is just simply not balanced. I don't mind being beaten by a light pilot - but I want that light pilot to have the requisite skills to do it and not just do it because the game in its current form is significantly handicapped.

So, if you find yourself worrying about the fixes to come, perhaps you shouldn't be in a light. I know this sounds a lot like "L2P" (which I suppose it is in a way), but just because you are playing a light now and racking up kills doesn't mean this is the way the game is supposed to be. The game in its current form (including bugs like removing all but one of the jump jets so you can still jump like before but have less weight for weapons or other items) requires a lack of skills to pilot a light.

The true light pilots are not fearing these things - in fact they are even looking forward to them because they want to be able to shine like they should instead of being lost in all the noise.

And believe me, a light pilot with any skill will be worth his weight in MC. Therefore, no ablative armor, ballistics nerfs (at least for this reason), or whatever need be applied.

You hit the nail on the head. Being a scout means more than just circle straffing and charging into mechs without knock down on. A light fast mech should fear 2 or more medium or heavier mechs for fear of being either tripped or killed by no lagged return fire. Scouts should know when to attack, flank, and most importantly retreat. Scout is not another word for Rambo.