20 replies to this topic

[Tachykard]

Since ecm was released you only see ecm commandos and ravens with streak srm. At this moment this combinations requires no aiming and does a lot of damge at the same time. Other light mechs are useless against these 2 ecm mechs. Please dont give ecm to mechs with 2 or more rocket slots. Giving it to mechs with more energy slots is better and more balanced in my opinion. In the current state you are forced to use these light ecm mechs to have a good chance of countering the other light ecm mechs of the enemy. That makes the other varaints of light mechs pretty useless.

Greetings

[Syllogy]

Tachykard, on 10 December 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Since ecm was released you only see ecm commandos and ravens with streak srm. At this moment this combinations requires no aiming and does a lot of damge at the same time. Other light mechs are useless against these 2 ecm mechs. Please dont give ecm to mechs with 2 or more rocket slots. Giving it to mechs with more energy slots is better and more balanced in my opinion. In the current state you are forced to use these light ecm mechs to have a good chance of countering the other light ecm mechs of the enemy. That makes the other varaints of light mechs pretty useless.

Greetings

Yet another ECM thread.

I call Shenanigans against this presumption that Commandos and Ravens are out of control.

I absolutely annihilate Commandos and Ravens alike with my Founder's Atlas (of all mechs).

No one is forced to use ECM Lights to have any good chance at countering anything.

Lights are meant to be scouts, ECM enables them to become better scouts, but not all-powerful.

[Roadbuster]

I have to agree to both sides.
I see many Commandos and Ravens with ECM. Most of them don't scout though. They rush in and mess everyone up at close range. ECM Atlai are not such a problem. They are slow and big and you can hit them.
Light mechs also have the advantage of lag/netcode/hit detection...call it what you like. It's a pain to hunt them down with lasers or ACs and you can't use LRMs or Streaks on them.

It's just that often you have a bad combination of light mechs and many ECMs that destroy your team.

These things will improve once hitboxes/netcode... is fixed and mechs can fall down again.
It won't solve the problem of ECM stacking though.


At the moment 1 ECM can counter 1 other ECM. If your opponent got 2 ECM though, your single ECM is useless in either mode.

Quote

Your ECM in counter mode will:

• Cancel the effect of one enemy ECM on Mechs (friendly or enemy) within range of your ECM (180 m)
  
  • However, two enemy ECMs affecting the Mech would require two counter ECMs, three would require three, etc.

• Completely cancel all effects of an ECM in disrupt mode equipped on an enemy Mech that is within range (180 m)
  
  • Mechs countered in such a way have their ECM symbol replaced with a crossed out version.
    
  • You can only counter one enemy ECM in this manner.
    
    • I.e. If there are two enemy Mechs with disrupt mode ECMs in range, one will be countered while the other will function normally. But two counter ECMs will counter two disrupt ECMs, etc.

I think PGI should remove that ECM stacking.
If you have more ECM mechs on your team, you can cover more groups of mechs, or a bigger area, but if there is an opponent with ECM in counter mode, it will counter all ECM in its range.

[Roland]

ECM doesn't block bullets or lasers.

Learn to lead light targets, and they die pretty quick. Especially the commando, which has paper armor.

[Roughneck45]

Netcode and collisions.

Until they are both fixed, attempting to balance light mechs in any way is pointless.

[focuspark]

ECM is new and shiny, of course everyone is trying it out. It's not OP but it's is kind of broken.

Light mechs are supposed to tear up the massive slow mechs. Yeah yeah not in CBT/TT where the only thing that mattered was tonnage. Well, welcome to MWO where the designers spent some time thinking about balance. You want to kill light mechs? Get a Medium mech.

Also, ECM boats with SSRMs? That'd be kinda stupid don't you think? But not surprising I suppose. BTW, the ECM you're complaining about is the fix for the SSRMs you're complaining about.

[AlanEsh]

Roadbuster, on 10 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I think PGI should remove that ECM stacking.
If you have more ECM mechs on your team, you can cover more groups of mechs, or a bigger area, but if there is an opponent with ECM in counter mode, it will counter all ECM in its range.

Yup.

[Roland]

Roadbuster, on 10 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I think PGI should remove that ECM stacking.
If you have more ECM mechs on your team, you can cover more groups of mechs, or a bigger area, but if there is an opponent with ECM in counter mode, it will counter all ECM in its range.

I think this could be a workable change that I could get behind. I don't particularly find ECM overpowered though.

[Deadoon]

Ecm stacking should be disabled until the angel ecm is available.

[AlanEsh]

Roadbuster needs to make his own thread suggesting this to the devs, then we can all come in and bump it every 5 minutes.

[ltwally]

Though light mechs are able to make the most effective use of ECM, the problem is not with the light mechs that have ECM. The problem is with ECM itself. For a piece of equipment that only weighs 1.5 tonnes, generates no heat and requires no ammunition, ECM is far too powerful and has far too much of an impact on game balance.

It's not that more mechs need ECM -- it's that ECM needs to be less effective so that you don't feel like everyone needs to have it.

[Konner Duko]

the major issue i have with the ecm is that the blancket bubble effect seems to be a null signature system on steriods rather than an ecm. remove the blancket effect and i think ecm will sort itself out.

[focuspark]

Konner Duko, on 10 December 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

the major issue i have with the ecm is that the blancket bubble effect seems to be a null signature system on steriods rather than an ecm. remove the blancket effect and i think ecm will sort itself out.

Agreed. ECM my definition should interfere with systems with in its range. Perhaps the devs should consider bumping the radius of ECM to 500m and only affecting targets within that range. If LOS is made outside of 500m then indirect fire can be set upon the ECM unit. Also, can prevent indirect fire units within 500m from using targeting assistance of any kind.

[HammelHauer]

He talked about light mechs with ecm and streaks and he is right. If 2 of them run in your lines and you dont have a ecm to counter it they will make so much damage because you cant hit them with streaks which are made to counter light mechs. To hit a commando, who has a speed over 100, with ac's is almost impossible so only weapons are lasers which arent that effective. +you even have troubles to hit them when they are lagging and i almost never saw a commando who wasnt lagging.
But the commando has 3xssrm with 100% hit so he dont need to aim. I saw it several times that 3 commandos with ecm who always run together dominated the battle with no chance to kill them.

If you have a ecm mech in your own line then they arent that big problem but many lights with ecm against a team without ecm and the battle is almost over. Just remove the missile slots from the raven and commando and give them a balistic or more energy slots so they are still almost imune against missiles but they need atleast to aim.
The only thing where i find ecm is op is with the range of 180m but it still needs a solid counter which isnt ecm.

[Willie Sauerland]

HammelHauer, on 10 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

He talked about light mechs with ecm and streaks and he is right. If 2 of them run in your lines and you dont have a ecm to counter it they will make so much damage because you cant hit them with streaks which are made to counter light mechs. To hit a commando, who has a speed over 100, with ac's is almost impossible so only weapons are lasers which arent that effective. +you even have troubles to hit them when they are lagging and i almost never saw a commando who wasnt lagging.

LOL - I have been known to tag Commandos with PPCs or an AC/20. It isn't impossible, but it does take practice.

Quote

But the commando has 3xssrm with 100% hit so he dont need to aim.

I call shenanigans. They not only have to aim, they also have to get a lock. Without aiming a bit, there is no lock.

Quote

I saw it several times that 3 commandos with ecm who always run together dominated the battle with no chance to kill them.

If you have a ecm mech in your own line then they arent that big problem but many lights with ecm against a team without ecm and the battle is almost over. Just remove the missile slots from the raven and commando and give them a balistic or more energy slots so they are still almost imune against missiles but they need atleast to aim.
The only thing where i find ecm is op is with the range of 180m but it still needs a solid counter which isnt ecm.

It has a counter - it is called teamwork. There is another counter - it is called TAG. And of course, the ultimate counter: shooting them (again, practice makes perfect).

[HammelHauer]

Willie Sauerland, on 10 December 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

LOL - I have been known to tag Commandos with PPCs or an AC/20. It isn't impossible, but it does take practice.



I call shenanigans. They not only have to aim, they also have to get a lock. Without aiming a bit, there is no lock.



It has a counter - it is called teamwork. There is another counter - it is called TAG. And of course, the ultimate counter: shooting them (again, practice makes perfect).

I didnt said that it is impossible i can hit them too with a gauss gun if they dont lag
Indeed but you cant call 'get a lock' as aiming
Teamwork sounds good in theory but mostly you dont have such a good teamwork with 7 random players. If you play with 7 friends then it is easy. TAG doesnt work i tried it several times and nothing -first to keep the laser on such a fast target for several sec isnt that easy and 2nd i was 1 time behind a cat in ecm range and TAGed him 30sec in the back and nothing happened

Edited by HammelHauer, 10 December 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Chacatumbi]

Syllogy, on 10 December 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Yet another ECM thread.

I call Shenanigans against this presumption that Commandos and Ravens are out of control.

I absolutely annihilate Commandos and Ravens alike with my Founder's Atlas (of all mechs).

No one is forced to use ECM Lights to have any good chance at countering anything.


The ignorance is strong on this one... Atlas ddc or atlas d? ECM raven vs non ECM raven? That is the point he is making... And the reality is non-ECM variants are second class citizens. Not to mention useless ravens...

Lights are meant to be scouts, ECM enables them to become better scouts, but not all-powerful.

Err not to mention useless jenners

[Chacatumbi]

Teamwork don't work either... Cuss if premade 8, and you go up against an all ECM lance... Teamwork not gonna cut it cuss they got teamwork and ECM too lol

[Screaming Crow]

What about making ECM function against friends as well as foes instead of the disrupt/counter mechanism?

It is supposed to be a blanket effect, no?

[Willie Sauerland]

HammelHauer, on 10 December 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

I didnt said that it is impossible i can hit them too with a gauss gun if they dont lag
Indeed but you cant call 'get a lock' as aiming
Teamwork sounds good in theory but mostly you dont have such a good teamwork with 7 random players. If you play with 7 friends then it is easy. TAG doesnt work i tried it several times and nothing -first to keep the laser on such a fast target for several sec isnt that easy and 2nd i was 1 time behind a cat in ecm range and TAGed him 30sec in the back and nothing happened

For something to happen when TAGging somebody, somebody must shoot LRMs... You would have to announce it somehow - either in voice chat using the TS server or in the chat. TAG by itself does nothing. I agree - tagging something is not easy unless they are stationary and you are somewhere they cannot see you or the TAG (if they are using infrared vision).

However teamwork, even in an 8-man PUG match which has voice comms (again, there are open and freely available TS servers people!) is not impossible. Even using the chat, a rudimentary teamwork effect can be created.