39 replies to this topic

[Orzorn]

Vassago Rain, on 10 December 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

I have thousands of games logged. Hours daily. At this point, I'm pretty sure my metrics are better than PGI's. But I wouldn't take them as gospel.

But when I get two 8 manz in a row, against the same exact guys, that tells me something's up. This got pretty silly last night, when we were fighting two groups twice each in very short order.

I've seen such behavior even in World of Warcraft when entering queue for Arena. I've seen the same in Dota 2.

Many matchmaking systems have a tendency to match people who enter the system at similar (or the exact same, in the case of timed drops) time.

That isn't to say there might not be a lack, but dropping against the same teams a few times in a row isn't unheard of even in well populated games.

[Ursh]

It's a matter of not wanting to play Atlas Warrior Online when I'm not in an atlas.

People either try to base rush, or they sit on their own base and try to bore you into attacking their entrenched position.

[Apoc1138]

Phantomewzick, on 10 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

And i cant find a single group on either comstar TS's to do an 8man with, is everyone afraid their precious K/D will go down? Afraid you will LOSE a match or five?

Seriously, this is NOT an E-sport game, and likely never will be, your "stats" mean NOTHING here.

P.S. While i am currently in a clan, they also seem unwilling to risk doing 8-mans, so i am very much considering leaving, and im looking for a clan/group of players that are willing to play with the big dogs, and try new strategies and tactics out.

consider checking out HHoD... we have default position of running 8 mans and always have atleast 1-2 running plus 4mans for training new recruits

know what you mean though, we often fail to find a match or end up playing our own people

[Vassago Rain]

Vlad Ward, on 10 December 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

We get the same team back to back a few times, but that makes some sense since we're both exiting our previous match at the same time and are probably launching near-simultaneously.

Overall, I'm not surprised that the Comstar channels are wimping out. It's a real shame, since 8v8 is a hell of a lot more fun than Pug'ing or pubstomping. I'm sure there are plenty of corps out there taking in new people.

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed, too. From all the big talk, I was expecting at least half of them to show their mad skillz.

[Lefty Lucy]

Ursh, on 10 December 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

It's a matter of not wanting to play Atlas Warrior Online when I'm not in an atlas.

People either try to base rush, or they sit on their own base and try to bore you into attacking their entrenched position.

Our team does neither of these tactics and has a ridiculously high win %.

[FrostPaw]

Here's what I imagine happens.

1) Bunch of random people form a team of 8 Just for fun.
2) Bunch of people drop against a team full of ECM that just rushes their base
3) Bunch of people accept the loss, try another game.
3) Bunch of people accept several more losses in similar fashion.
4) Bunch of people decide 8 mans aren't for them since they aren't having fun.

It's a situation made by the people who are exploiting every advantage they can. you either copy that exploitation or....you just leave.

Most people would rather leave than copy it.

[Orzorn]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Our team does neither of these tactics and has a ridiculously high win %.

What the Remant does is play lots of high damage, long range builds (mostly Cataphracts and some K2s, although I play my long range Dragon) with maybe 1 or 2 ECM (although we've played plenty without any ECM at all). This works great against both light and heavy teams alike, because the heavy Atlas teams die before they can even get to us, and lights die if we hit them even twice (sure the netcode sucks, but when 4 people are shooting AC/2s, AC/5s, UAC/5s, gauss, AC/20, etc all at once, you're going to die if even a few hit you).

We, most of the time, run only a single Atlas.

[Eisenhorne]

FrostPaw, on 10 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Here's what I imagine happens.

1) Bunch of random people form a team of 8 Just for fun.
2) Bunch of people drop against a team full of ECM that just rushes their base
3) Bunch of people accept the loss, try another game.
3) Bunch of people accept several more losses in similar fashion.
4) Bunch of people decide 8 mans aren't for them since they aren't having fun.

It's a situation made by the people who are exploiting every advantage they can. you either copy that exploitation or....you just leave.

Most people would rather leave than copy it.

Yup. If you don't have 3 ECM ravens + 5 ECM atlases (or at least 2 ECM atlases and nothing but tweaked catapults / cataphracts) you might as well not even bother. If your scouts are outnumbered by ECM ravens, you can't fight off their ravens or defend your base. If your outnumbered by atlases, you don't have the firepower to defend your base.

I like piloting my dragon and centurion from time to time. Unfortunately, if you try that **** in an 8 man you just end up dead. When I just try to pull random people into an 8 man to make a group, it sucks to have to tell people they can't play, because their catapult with PPC's just doesn't cut it.

[Broceratops]

FrostPaw, on 10 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Here's what I imagine happens.

1) Bunch of random people form a team of 8 Just for fun.
2) Bunch of people drop against a team full of ECM that just rushes their base
3) Bunch of people accept the loss, try another game.
3) Bunch of people accept several more losses in similar fashion.
4) Bunch of people decide 8 mans aren't for them since they aren't having fun.

It's a situation made by the people who are exploiting every advantage they can. you either copy that exploitation or....you just leave.

Most people would rather leave than copy it.

5) Bunch of people go back to 4 man pugstomps.
6) Bunch of other people decide MWO isn't for them since they aren't having fun.

overall a really sketchy system they got right now

[Harmatia]

QuantumButler, on 10 December 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Beware though, if you do 8mans, most teams just try to basecap rush and don't actually want to fight.

Since baserushing is a good way to show off their pro-elite MLG skillz, you see, and if you dare question the crappy gamemode they will tell you to l2p.

Be prepared for teams fielding 4 or more lagshielded invulnerable ECM light mechs who just run for your base.

We normally send a scout to advise and wait for most of these rushers at our own base. The funny thing about those super fast lag-shielding mechs, when they hit something they tend to stop briefly. Enough for an alpha strike directly to the face. That usually takes care of the Commando, Jenner or Cicada circling strafing inside of 100 metres.

[QuantumButler]

Broceratops, on 10 December 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

5) Bunch of people go back to 4 man pugstomps.
6) Bunch of other people decide MWO isn't for them since they aren't having fun.

overall a really sketchy system they got right now

The MWO experience in a nutshell.

[Vlad Ward]

Orzorn, on 10 December 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

We, most of the time, run only a single Atlas.

Which is usually me, messing around with a joystick for the immersionz, so it's really more like half an Atlas.

We were unusually light yesterday, though. I think we were running 1/5/1/1 with 4 hunchbacks most of the time.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 10 December 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Plenty of groups doing the 8v8 queue; just mostly those who actually want the challenge now.

Are you particular to any one House Allegiance for your next group?

[Orzorn]

Eisenhorne, on 10 December 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

I like piloting my dragon and centurion from time to time. Unfortunately, if you try that **** in an 8 man you just end up dead. When I just try to pull random people into an 8 man to make a group, it sucks to have to tell people they can't play, because their catapult with PPC's just doesn't cut it.

I managed to discover a build that actually adds to my team on my Dragon and works rather well on many maps:
300 XL
Endo
DHS
2 Large Lasers (mounted in the side torso)
2 medium lasers (arm)
1 UAC/5 (arm)

With this build, you can peek your side torso over hills and snipe at people with basically no retalition. Your side torso is much too high on your body for the enemy to really have a target to hit. From their screen all they can see is a tiny box with a lens and then another tiny box (your cockpit).

I average 400-500 damage per game, which is pretty comparable to my cataphract comrades who pump out upwards of 600-700 damage per game (they are 10 tons heavier, you know). Still, I add to the speed of the team (they're all slow jerks who go about 50-60 or so km/h) and my job usually includes going back to the base if anybody is capping it.

Took me quite a while to figure that build out, though. The Dragon definitely has trouble in 8v8, that's for sure, but if you figure out and play to its strengths (high shoulder mounted energy hardpoints, in this case) it can compete just fine.

Edited by Orzorn, 10 December 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[Lin Shai]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Our team does neither of these tactics and has a ridiculously high win %.

The "You always play against 8x atlas" thing is (or at least was; see below) actually as much over exaggeration as the PUGs that say "You always play against pre-mades".

Unfortunately, the propagation of that myth has had an even worse effect with 8v8.

Whereas solo PUGers who don't want to use TS3 have no recourse other than to quit the game if they believe their myth, "PUGers with microphones" (casual groups on TS3) heard this new myth, ran into a couple, and decided they don't want to bother with 8v8 because that's not any fun and went back to 4-man. Some may not even try it based on what they read about it.

What this has done is actually caused the myth to become more of a reality; fewer 8-man teams not running the unbalanced team makeups are playing.

Edited by Lin Shai, 10 December 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[hammerreborn]

I usually end up back in 4 mans or just straight PUGging after a couple 8 man matches because when you just grab 8 random people your comp ends up being **** (hey we have no scouts, glad I brought this LRM boat or not a single mech with ECM, this is great!) and someones leaves every other match, and it's just not worth the increased effort (not that I'm particularly fond of PUG stomping, its just much easier to fill out a 4 man team and if someone quits hey we can still drop with 3 until someone joins the channel and asks for an invite).

Felt like trying to set up WoW raids all over again bringing in new members every few "rounds". I quit that game for a reason.

When we do the organized drops though those are awesome.

[Atayu]

Since the group patch I have split my drops 4 ways. I have been doing PUG drops, Duo Drops, 4 person drops, and 8V8 drops. Now out of all 4 kinds of drops the fastest xp and money has been with duo drops. The match's seem to go quicker and you do not seem to face groups with sets of 4 in them near as much. Next highest xp would be pug dropping. The rounds go fast and pug drops are also where I get to run up my kill count as I do not have a bunch of other skilled players quickly taking the kills. 3rd most productive seems to be 8v8 drops. Now every once and a wwhile you get a bad apple or 2 in your group but if you have a good group xp and money will still come in good. Now 4 person groups seem to be the least affective for me right now. You seem to face teams with other 4 person groups allot yet you have 4 people you can not count on. So to specify I picked best to worst based on the average xp-money earned in 25 drops of each kind. This many very for other people though.
Best to worst XP effectiveness.
1.Duo Drops with another skilled player
2.Pug drops with me and pugy's
3.8v8 drops
4.4v4 drops

Now if it was by fun not xp-credits i would go
1.8v8
2.Duo
3.4 man
4.Pug

I know other people will vary but that is my standing on it.

[Orzorn]

Atayu, on 10 December 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Best to worst XP effectiveness.
1.Duo Drops with another skilled player
2.Pug drops with me and pugy's
3.8v8 drops
4.4v4 drops

Now if it was by fun not xp-credits i would go
1.8v8
2.Duo
3.4 man
4.Pug

I know other people will vary but that is my standing on it.

The Remant seems to notice that our 8v8s probably produce the most cash. I'm ALMOST getting 300,000 per game (I usually get about 250,000 to 280,000). This is likely because we run heavy ballistics and folks like MwHighlander and Epitaph are extremely accurate and usually get their fair share of headshots and leg destructions.

[Elfman]

That's weird re the commstar network because when I am on UK times seems to be lots of 8 man teams or teams waiting to get enough for 8. in fact I have only solo dropped or 8 manned since the new 8v8 went live

[Atayu]

Orzorn, on 10 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Remant seems to notice that our 8v8s probably produce the most cash. I'm ALMOST getting 300,000 per game (I usually get about 250,000 to 280,000). This is likely because we run heavy ballistics and folks like MwHighlander and Epitaph are extremely accurate and usually get their fair share of headshots and leg destructions.

We win our 8 mans most of the time as well with good profit, but the duo match's average 2-3 min where the 8v8 average 6-9 min. So over the the time played the duo makes more xp and money because of 2 or 3 times the games played in same amount of time. Although we do have quick group match's sometimes it is getting rarer and rarer as more teams pick up there skill level.