28 replies to this topic

[Solis Obscuri]

Nginear, on 10 December 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

The easiest way I can see this fixed is to make the TAG laser a TRUE hard counter. Tag, at any range used on the ECM target, counters the ECM effect on the target.This means a scout humping an ECM Atlas can use tag to get his friends to light up the Atlas. Try piloting a scout mech and maintain TAG on an ECM equipped mech at 200+ meters. Needless to say it is hard to keep the tag up, at distance, and keep alive. Also. We need to drop the Paper-Rock-Scissors analogy. It gets cumbersome. Rock - TAG Scissors - ECM Paper - Missile Lock? Rock - Scouts Paper - ??? ECM beats ranged targeting (IE BAP), which is supposed to be countered by TAG, which is originally designed to assist LRM's, which is designed to give indirect fire support for the Spotting Scout, which is equipping BAP to find the targets which counter with ECM. This discussion should not be "X is designed to beat Y", but that is what it seems to have turned into to. I do have to put my vote in : NO. TAG is not the "Rock" to the ECM "Scissors". Not yet at least.

An even better question might be "Why did we fund a $5.2M kickstarter for what has turned into a game of rock-paper-scissors instead of Battletech?"

If, y'know, I was one of those sort of people inclined to make snarky comments on the internets...

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Twin Gauss to the face beats everything.

[StainlessSR]

I still fail to see how reflected light (which is what the tag laser is) is stopped by ECM. If ECM stops reflected light then it should act as a Romulan cloaking device and scatter the light that is reflected from the mechs that let us visually see them and make the whole area of effect just a blur. For tag to even begin to be considered any type of counter there should be the range extension that is planned and ECM should not block it in close, also tag should be mountable without a hard-point, just assign it a key to turn it on and off like ECM uses J to switch modes. Even then I believe (can't say for certain till playing with it in game) that ECM would still be OP to a degree.

[Solis Obscuri]

StainlessSR, on 10 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

If ECM stops reflected light then it should act as a Romulan cloaking device

[Jman5]

Vassago Rain, on 10 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Give it a duration, instead of a persistent effect. So if you tag someone, and you lase off it, you still have X seconds.

There is a 2-3 second duration on TAG already. You can't really make it any longer or you start eating into the NARC's Role.

[st1x]

Jman5, on 10 December 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

There is a 2-3 second duration on TAG already. You can't really make it any longer or you start eating into the NARC's Role.

Didn't realise narc had a role....or at least a viable working role.

Ah yes...ECM's made those pointless.

gg all.

[Steel Claws]

FrostPaw, on 10 December 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

The only counter to ECM right now is another ECM, they even designed it this way, that's why it has two modes of usage.

Umm hey what about lasers, gauss, ACs, SRMs? Gee these things are uneffected by ECM. Sorry but ECM isn't that powerful. I still see lots of streaks and LRMs used in 95% of every match I drop in and by at least 40 - 70 percent of the mechs in the drop. Almost every time I use a missile boat (my hunchie 4J) since ECM came out I still score as one of the top two scorers - even pugging.

Why is PGI being silent about this issue? Do you suppose that they are collecting real hard data - they have that ability you know. THey aren't just going to listen to the reactions of all the people who are mad because they can't boat streaks and LRMs as easily anymore. My bet is they looked at the missile use and said - what are these guys complaining about?

Edited by Steel Claws, 10 December 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

Vassago Rain, on 10 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Give it a duration, instead of a persistent effect. So if you tag someone, and you lase off it, you still have X seconds.

Currently is that. Move tag off, it decays in less than 2 seconds. That mechanic exists currently. Let's not confuse people into thinking it isn't there. Clearly, you think the decay should be longer.

[msqueak]

Pugastrius, on 10 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

At Range:
Scissors: The ECM blocks targeting of ALL allies with-in its radius.
Rock: Tag un-blocks targeting of one enemy if LOS is maintained if successfully targeted.

Pugastrius, on 10 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

At Close Range:

Scissors: Still cloaks, but also disrupts the battle grid and a slew of other annoying things.
Rock: Within the area of effect of the ECM, the TAG does nothing.

The 1st question I think of is why does tag not work if you are too close? Tag is a laser designator. Whatever you are hitting with a laser designator is a target. Now if you were lasing them and I did not have LOS with them then I would not expect to be able to lock on. You could lock on to them because you can have LOS of them while they are lased, but their ECM is preventing you from sending me that data. Once I can see them and they are still lased I have LOS with a designated target. I should be able to lock on.

Edited by msqueak, 10 December 2012 - 08:31 PM.