66 replies to this topic

[Mech Merc]

I decided to test out the selection of trial mechs last night and man do they suck compared to the owned mechs.

Owned mechs are stuffed to the gills and trials are TT setups - I was lucky if I broke over 100 points in damage and was constantly overheating even with a sensible firing pace.

These are the first mech new users are going to experience and they are not going to even scratch the paint of most of the other (owned) mech they'll encounter and they'll die fast and will probably not come back for more.

Why not either beef up trial mechs or make a newbie version of the game with trial mech only?

Edited by Mech Merc, 10 December 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[Pugastrius]

Made a post about this same thing earlier:

Here are some "simple" fixes to trial mech problems.

Trial mechs should:

Quote

- Assume the player has all basic efficiencies (x2): People complain about "heat" being a big issue. This will help considerably with this, without having to change the TT basic configs.

- Assume the player has Speed Tweak: Again, most trial mechs are considerably slower than their custom counter-parts. Applying speed tweak should solve these problems.

- Apply Max Armor to the Torsos (at the cost of arms/legs): This will help improve survivability across the board for new players.

- Generate GXP (at standard rate, not at mech exp rate): Nothing tells new players that they don't matter more than making no progress at all.

3 Balance changes and one quality of life change to improve the Trial Mechs.

Edited by Pugastrius, 10 December 2012 - 12:40 PM.

[Mech Merc]

Good ideas.

What this game also needs is a tutorial where the user plays though various scenarios so they can get familiar with a mech

[Aym]

Of course we're 1 week out of some sort of new user overhaul.

[Abrahms]

Failed game design. They think bad trial mechs = you buy their mechs.

However, for most people, unless a game already has a huge fan base to suck friends in, a failed first impression = no money.

I love battletech, my friends dont. They tried this game, and havent touched it with a 10 foot pole since then.

If the game isnt fun, most will not spend $. Theyre thriving off the battletech fans right now. They will never make it big with this strategy. Hopefully they change who is on payroll before it flops.

They have a really good foundation right now with a great artist and a great franchise. Itd be a shame to throw it away because of failed game design.

[Busukaba]

The Trial Mechs actually aren't all that bad, you just need to know how to use them properly. OK, fine, you're not gonna score 1600 damage with one and you're right, trials were meant to work within the parameters of TT and so will not have 37 tons of LRM or Gauss ammo, but if you use them properly you can get some decent results. I was regularly getting 400-500 damage with the Awesome 8T when that was a trial (not sure if that was open or closed beta).

Haven't used any of the new batch, but that current Awesome is a little tough to use for a noob, but the other Mechs there aren't bad at all. The Jenner is great, you just can't group fire everything. I remember using the Hunchback 4J in closed beta as a trial and doing well, getting 300 damage regularly. ECM could make a difference with it, but you still have 5 mediums you can tear into someone with. Heat management is the name of the game with them.

I know to a lot of the munchkins out there if you're not doing 1000 damage you suck, but these Mechs are decent, survivable, and can lay down some nice firepower if used correctly. Sure I already did my grind, but I wouldn't mind using the trial Jenner or Hunchback again...

[Taryys]

Please sign here:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

[Lefty Lucy]

Busukaba, on 10 December 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

The Trial Mechs actually aren't all that bad, you just need to know how to use them properly. OK, fine, you're not gonna score 1600 damage with one and you're right, trials were meant to work within the parameters of TT and so will not have 37 tons of LRM or Gauss ammo, but if you use them properly you can get some decent results. I was regularly getting 400-500 damage with the Awesome 8T when that was a trial (not sure if that was open or closed beta).

Haven't used any of the new batch, but that current Awesome is a little tough to use for a noob, but the other Mechs there aren't bad at all. The Jenner is great, you just can't group fire everything. I remember using the Hunchback 4J in closed beta as a trial and doing well, getting 300 damage regularly. ECM could make a difference with it, but you still have 5 mediums you can tear into someone with. Heat management is the name of the game with them.

I know to a lot of the munchkins out there if you're not doing 1000 damage you suck, but these Mechs are decent, survivable, and can lay down some nice firepower if used correctly. Sure I already did my grind, but I wouldn't mind using the trial Jenner or Hunchback again...

If you're a decently skilled, experienced player you can dominate with a stick of rancid butter in the PUG queue as long as you don't run up against a semi-organized team. Saying "I do fine in trial mechs" does not mean that trial mechs are fine for new players. Trial mechs with LRMs are in an especially bad spot with the fact that the in-game prompt for minimum range is not very intuitive, and ECM makes LRMs just straight-up not work a lot of the time.

[Mech Merc]

Another side effect is it dooms teams. I've had games where 5 out of 8 of the palyer on my team did less than 50 points of damage. The battlefield isn't for newbies - it's a bad experience all around.

They need a separate area where they have a chance to learn instead of getting melted by a vet in an owned mech.

Edited by Mech Merc, 10 December 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[Taryys]

No, they do not need a separate queue and this is why:

Quote

DO NOT... put trial mechs in their own queue: putting trial mechs in a trial queue will create another set of problems, simply because vet players can also use or may need to use trial mechs. Vet players who are trying to game the system may try to jump into a trial mech to try to frag some newbs to make some easy money and destroy the game for others. We also cannot get rid of access to Trial Mechs for veteran players since they also may use them if they spend all of their cash on a new mech, or expensive upgrades, and then take significant losses while not being able to cover their Repair and Rearm costs. Plus the Trial Mechs are a way for people to test drive new mechs that they do not currently have access to.

My above thread has the answers. Please sign!!! =)

Mech Merc, on 10 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Another side effect is it dooms teams. I've had games where 5 out of 8 of the palyer on my team did less than 50 points of damage. The battlefield isn't for newbies - it's a bad experience all around.

They need a separate area where they have a chance to learn instead of getting melted by a vet in an owned mech.

Edited by Taryys, 10 December 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[Colaessus]

Last I checked I was playing MechWarrior, a Sim, not a Arcadic FPS.

Trial Mechs are fine, it makes you learn the basic of mech piloting, situaion awareness and heat management.
Trial mechs are to force you to collect C-bills and get a owned Mech.
I played trial mech till I was able to buy a atlas.
On average i get 200 Damage and get a kill.

Learn some tactics and wait.

So, you are all wrong.

[Taryys]

I am not wrong.

[BbadAK]

The trial mechs might be ok if there was anything at all in the game that explained it's basic mechanics. As of yet, there is no indication that any weapons have this thing called a minimum range. There is nothing explaining how heat works or how to manage it and there is nothing explaining exactly what all of the various equipment does or that an XL engine makes you vulnerable to torso destruction. None of this is intuitive for someone who has no experience with battletech or mechwarrior.

My understanding is that IGP and PGI are trying to expand their playerbase. To this end they have announced that they are going to introduce a 3rd person view. The community in general provided massive backlash to this idea. I just don't understand the argument that they are trying to help new players with 3rd person when there is absolutely nothing in the game that even attempts to do so right now.

Trial mechs are bad. Period. You might be able to get marginal results out of them if you know what you are doing, but that's not who they are intended for. Their heat efficiency sucks, oh well that's workable. But when you have a cataphract that has 1 ton of ammo for it's main weapon (AC10) and everything else generates too much heat for the mech to handle, you cripple players who already weren't going to be doing that great anyway. If the trial mechs were even marginally competitive you might see less suicide and AFK.

[Taryys]

SEE MY THREAD PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!!

Don't make me beg. Please, I hate begging. My knees are sore already.



(the thread-which-shall-not-be-named is in my sig and up thread too)

[Broceratops]

yes they suck hard. anyone who grinds out a real mech from trials is someone to be commended for their tolerance and patience....which is not good for the game

[Sevaradan]

trials are fine, my group was rofl stomping pugs in 4x trial mechs the other night

[BbadAK]

Sevaradan, on 10 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

trials are fine, my group was rofl stomping pugs in 4x trial mechs the other night

You are missing the point. The fact that you group was probably comprised of all players with a decent amount of experience really goes beyond the purpose of trials. If you want to see how they really do, go find a friend who has never played mechwarrior and hand them a trial mech without explaining any game mechanics to them. Trials are bad.

Don't read this as "trials need to be amazing". I simply think that they should be at least a little bit optimized to be a trial mech. There is so much in this game that resembles battletech in name only, yet the things they stick to religiously are some of the worst aspects of the game and lore.

I can' throw out a similar situation: We were 8 manning the other day and ran into a group running all trials. Once the Cataphract and the other time the awesome. They got stomped. We ran into them two more times in customized mechs and had very even fights.

[Zygwen]

I played a few rounds in trial mechs last night to switch things up. Didn't have any problems getting kills.

[Perrucho]

Sevaradan, on 10 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

trials are fine, my group was rofl stomping pugs in 4x trial mechs the other night

IF you have played any other mech game before; like the original MW games, Armored Core or even some Gundam... yes, you will work out how stuff functions here. This is basically my first MW game, I am more of an Armored Core fan (and since there is no AC for PC, I have to play this for the time being).

Now, I love mechs, even tough I don't like MW designs a whole lot. So I'm what you would call peripheral customer. But someone who is just trying the game because it's free to play?

The trials are GARBAGE. I saved first for a commando through grinding. Didn't work for me; got a hunchback afterwards, I am doing better. Just by putting in heatsinks things improve a damn lot; I have all my 8 basic whatever they are called I bought with mech exp. I can tell you this game is unintuitive as all hell, the GUI needs a lot of work, the tool tips may work for someone neck deep in MW canon but not for newcomers.

I find the lack of customization boring; I can paint any core I want pink with a camo pattern; it seems here I have to buy a very specific model to get acces to that. Compared to any Armored Core game, building mechs here is boring and not very attractive, I cannot match pieces to work around the tonnage alloted; armor works weird, I cannot choose what side I want my missile launchers installed.

I am only still playing becuase quite frankly, I WANT to get into MW because a friend of mine is a super geek about it; I've gotten over the "ugly" chickenwalkers and the generic humanoids (You don't have boosters here for every mech, only a select few have the ports) and I'm missing both the spider legs and the tank treads, even tough I know asking for hover mechs might get me yelled at by long time fans, I found those silly too in AC.

And that's cosmetic, but the actual internal configuration is archaic to say the least; no way to modify each engine, no way to upgrade sensors to my specific needs; and the trial mechs are just even more abysmally ancient.

No ECM, no AMS, crappy sensor range; over heat with just 4 laser shots fired in sucession; trying an overboost overheats you every damn time, turning rate is horrendous, acceleration and braking suck.

Trials should be more abour "look, THIS is what you MIGHT be able to afford" and not "look, if you don't want to play 6 hours in a row just to buy the very very BASIC builds, use some real cash instead".

[Mech Merc]

First off you are an experienced pilot - this thread isn't referring to you.

Secondly new users are almost always going to be pugs.