62 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

This already exists to a limited degree because of the placement of weapons on certain chassis and the way that models with small numbers of missile tubes utilize larger launchers.

For example, the ballistic HP on an Atlas is very low, meaning you have to crest over a hill farther to fire effectively with it, versus the HBK that can just peek over. The AWS-9M only has two-tube missile launchers, so it fires SRM4/6 in salvos of two missiles, with the same spread as an SRM2. This means that while they tend to spread damage a bit more, they're also more accurate out to 270 meters.

Edit: however, I still think they should increase this trend, as variety is the spice of mechwarrior.

Edited by Lefty Lucy, 10 December 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[FrostPaw]

The idea of this sounds horrible to me, adding additional "traits" to individual variants of a chassis pigeon holes them even further into the "only" choice for that chassis.

[TruePoindexter]

FrostPaw, on 10 December 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

The idea of this sounds horrible to me, adding additional "traits" to individual variants of a chassis pigeon holes them even further into the "only" choice for that chassis.

Or it helps balance their perks if they're tweaked down. See the CTF-4X.

[TruePoindexter]

Thontor, on 10 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

I know the post you are thinking of, and it was in the closed beta forums if i recall correctly. Unfortunately it wasn't moved over to the public forums, to my knowledge.

Alas it's gone but if memory served the YLW has slightly more/faster torso twist in comparison to the other Centurions. It also however did not have arm swing like the other Centurions do have.

[Tempered]

I did not vote because I did not see the "Give jenners an evil, curly mustache" option. That is what you meant by unique characteristics, right?

[TruePoindexter]

Tempered, on 10 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

I did not vote because I did not see the "Give jenners an evil, curly mustache" option. That is what you meant by unique characteristics, right?

Only if Commando's can get the Toothbrush Mustache

[bobthebomb]

More variable is always better

-Heat capacity (max heat)
-Heat efficiency (value of hs)
-Agility (speed while climbing/downhill, get up speed)
-stability (do i fall or not)
-Max speed (each mech could get a max speed independently from engine limit, so you could put a bigger engine for accel/hs gain)
-Arms convergence.
-Resistance to crit.
-Armored location.
-sensor range
-heat signature

dev could tweak these kind of numbers to balance underused chassis/variant.

[Nik Kerensky]

Tempered, on 10 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

I did not vote because I did not see the "Give jenners an evil, curly mustache" option. That is what you meant by unique characteristics, right?

Absolutely!

bobthebomb, on 10 December 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

More variable is always better

-Heat capacity (max heat)
-Heat efficiency (value of hs)
-Agility (speed while climbing/downhill, get up speed)
-stability (do i fall or not)
-Max speed (each mech could get a max speed independently from engine limit, so you could put a bigger engine for accel/hs gain)
-Arms convergence.
-Resistance to crit.
-Armored location.
-sensor range
-heat signature

dev could tweak these kind of numbers to balance underused chassis/variant.

There we go, more ideas like this please!

[Taizan]

TruePoindexter, on 10 December 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

They weren't useless in TT. Consider them an artifact from there

Artifacts, useless internals, chassis gimmicks - however you want to name it, things like this already are enough uniqueness to a chassis for me.

[The Basilisk]

Nik Kerensky, on 10 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

I think mechs, especially within the same weightclass, need more unique characteristics to differentiate between different chassis types besides just weight, appearance and hardpoints.

This becomes especially important when clan mechs arrive. If you've got three medium  omni-mechs for example, with the same or similar weapons tonnage capacity, there is virtually nothing to differentiate said mechs besides appearance as you can put whatever weapons you like on any of them.

I think features like unique torso twist rates, or chassis specific performance boosts and drawbacks would increase the games' longevity immensely.

Otherwise a lot of mechs get quite 'same-ish' after a while...

I think you are missing the fact that Mechs distinguish themselves by their very appearance.Compare the K2 Catapult and the 3D Cataphract for example.Both got 2 balistic hardpoints. The Phract got one Hardpoint in its arm and the other in its Torso.Two energy hardpoints High up in its Torso and 2 energy in its lower Arms with some lateral movment.The Pult got both balistic hardpoint on its Torso in a symetric manner and its 2 energy hardpoints higher than the Cockpit (ideal for sniping) and two appair with the balistic hardpoints.Both mechs got nearly similar Hardpoint typs but the Pult is a dedicated sniper ideal for hiding behind ridgelines and the phract is forced to stand ON ridges to be able to shoot on enemys so hes no ideal sniper.The Mechs are distinguished by their basic structure not only by weight and hardpoints. So they are already unique. In my opinion.

[Stormwolf]

The TT knows quirks for certain mechs. Some common examples include mechs with full head ejection systems, extended torso twist or if they are easy to maintain. There are also negative quirks if a design is difficult to maintain, has exposed acutators, etc.

Would love to see this introduced in MWO.

[Wizard Steve]

As a matter of interest, what quirks (if any) did the CTF-IM get?

[Stormwolf]

Wizard Steve, on 11 December 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

As a matter of interest, what quirks (if any) did the CTF-IM get?

That is not a canon mech, so no quirks have been established. Though I suppose that it would have the built in searchlight that the other Cataphracts have.

[TruePoindexter]

Wizard Steve, on 11 December 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

As a matter of interest, what quirks (if any) did the CTF-IM get?

With the stock engine it felt more sluggish to me than the others with the same engine/speed. This may have just been perception though. Otherwise it seems to match the CTF-1X/2X/3D line in terms of performance with only hard points and jj being the differences.

Taizan, on 11 December 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

Artifacts, useless internals, chassis gimmicks - however you want to name it, things like this already are enough uniqueness to a chassis for me.

Then consider it an intentional block to keep you from putting a large weapon in that arm.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 11 December 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[Khobai]

Yes. Right now theres just no reason to use certain chassis' like the Atlas-K, slow Awesomes, any of the Dragons, any Hunchback other than a 4SP, any Centurion other than a YLW or D, any Cicada or Raven without ECM, etc...

There should be unique traits for each variant. The way the skill trees should work is as follows:

Basic Efficiencies = same as they are now, shared by all mechs
Elite Efficiencies = skills tailored to a specific class of mech (assault, heavy, medium, light)
Master Efficiencies = skills tailored to the specific mech/specific variant (atlases in general or atlas-k, atlas-rs, atlas-d-dc, atlas-d, etc...)

[verybad]

Definately yes. I think each variant should get a fixed "Module Like" quirk that sets them appart.

[Stormwolf]

I finally have access to my books again, here's some examples of what I was talking about (from StratOps):

Quote

Battle Computer (5 Points)
The unit is an advanced command unit equipped with a
powerful tactical battle computer that allows for more eff ective
command of a battle force; the Cyclops is a prime example.
Each turn the unit is on the battlefi eld and the MechWarrior or
crew is conscious, their battle force receives a +2 modifi er to
all Initiative rolls. This modifi er is not cumulative with that of a
Command BattleMech.

Combat Computer (3 Points)
The unit possesses an advanced combat computer like that
installed in the Stalker. The computer can aid the MechWarrior
or pilot in managing heat levels, and each turn the unit will
generate four points of heat less than normal (but never less
than zero).

Command BattleMech (2 Points)
Some BattleMechs, such as the Atlas, BattleMaster, Black
Knight, King Crab, Mongoose, Marauder and Wolverine, are designed
as command units. During each turn that one or more
Command BattleMechs are present on the battlefi eld, a battle
force receives a +1 modifi er to all Initiative rolls. This modifier
is not cumulative with a Battle Computer.

Cowl (4 Points)
BattleMechs like the Cyclops have been outfitted with a
protective cowl that provides an additional 3 points of head
armor against all attacks except those that originate along the
row of hexes directly in front of the cowled ’Mech.

Improved Communications (2 Points)
The unit has a powerful communications suite that can
burn through standard electronic countermeasures. Hostile
Guardian ECM or Clan ECM systems do not interfere with this
unit, but Angel ECM (see p. 279, TO) still has its normal eff ect.

Stable (2 Points)
’Mech designs such as the Dragon are exceptionally stable,
receiving a –1 target number modifi er when forced to make a
Piloting Skill roll as a result of a physical attack.

Just a few examples, these are just the positive quirks, there are also a number a negative quirks to offset this:

Quote

Ammunition Feed Problem (1 Point)
The ammunition feed for one ballistic or missile weapon or bay
has a tendency to jam at inconvenient moments. After making a
to-hit roll, roll 2D6. On a result of 10+ the weapon jams and cannot
be fi red again in this battle. On a roll of 12, the new round of
ammunition will explode in the weapon for normal damage. Per
normal rules, Gauss weapon ammunition will not explode, but the
weapon itself does.

Difficult to Maintain (1 Point)
Some units are harder to maintain and repair. All repair or
replacement rolls made for this unit receive a +1 target number
modifier.

Exposed Actuators (1 Point)
The actuators on some designs (such as the Commando) are
poorly protected and more vulnerable to the eff ects of Swarm
and Leg attacks. The target numbers for such attacks receive a –1
modifier.

There are way more quirks described in the StratOps book, but I don't want to copy/paste the entire book here. Most of these quirks could be easily adapted into ingame mechanics, the Command BattleMech quirk should unlock certain command features for commanders.

[Nik Kerensky]

^ Excellent example of some of the positive and negative quirks that can be assigned to each individual chassis to really bring them to life.

[Nik Kerensky]

The Basilisk, on 11 December 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

I think you are missing the fact that Mechs distinguish themselves by their very appearance.Compare the K2 Catapult and the 3D Cataphract for example.Both got 2 balistic hardpoints. The Phract got one Hardpoint in its arm and the other in its Torso.Two energy hardpoints High up in its Torso and 2 energy in its lower Arms with some lateral movment.The Pult got both balistic hardpoint on its Torso in a symetric manner and its 2 energy hardpoints higher than the Cockpit (ideal for sniping) and two appair with the balistic hardpoints.Both mechs got nearly similar Hardpoint typs but the Pult is a dedicated sniper ideal for hiding behind ridgelines and the phract is forced to stand ON ridges to be able to shoot on enemys so hes no ideal sniper.The Mechs are distinguished by their basic structure not only by weight and hardpoints. So they are already unique. In my opinion.

Actually I covered appearance and hardpoints as the only way to currently distinguish mechs in the same weightclass in my very first post.

Two problems with settling for what you regard as currently 'unique'-

1. As the number of IS Mechs introduced grows, there will be more and more probability of having two mechs that are pretty much the same besides appearance and name

2. Once clan mechs are introduced, there is no hardpoint system whatsoever as these are omnimechs that can carry any weapon you like. So you are saying you would be happy with loads of mechs that are exactly the same but just have a slightly different appearance? Really??

I don't think the vast majority players would accept this at all, and PGI really need to focus on adding as much variety to this game as possible to keep it fresh in the long term. One of the key facets of adding this variety is to give each mech chassis as much personality as possible.

Edited by Nik Kerensky, 11 December 2012 - 01:05 PM.

[Enigmos]

The mechs are already different. There are more important things to do than go back and make rework of what doesn't need fixing.