112 replies to this topic

[Crunk Prime]

Garth had this to say about DHS in the recent ask the dev thread.

Quote

Q: Can we please at least try DHS at 2.0? It doesn't seem like much of a boost to lights who usually benefit mostly from the engine heat sinks, but heavies and assaults that use big energy weapons need the boost. [Wolfways]

A: No. Prior to releasing the Dual Heatsink upgrade the forums were abuzz with whether or not they would be mandatory on all Mechs. With the numbers we've chosen, they aren't, so I'd say we answered those questions well. [Garth]

He says full 2.0 DHS wont go in because it makes SHS obsolete(which is the point), and that nobody would use singles anymore. But now I want to ask, do any of you even use singles anymore? I know once I can afford it I slap doubles on my mechs. Engine heatsinks are already at 2.0, so I still just cant wrap my head around not making them all 2.0.

Even lore wise once DHS were out and common almost everybody switched over because singles suck.

[Bogsveigir]

I use singles on some builds, because I can fit more heat dissipation per slot, when the crits are more important than weight.

[TruePoindexter]

Thinly veiled DHS 2.0 thread is thinly veiled.

I'll just leave this here:

Spoiler

Chassis Name: Atlas
Model Name: AS7-RS
Variant Name: 4 ERL

Engine Cost: 1,280,000 C-Bills
Heat Sink Cost: 54,000 C-Bills
Armor Cost: 190,304 C-Bills
Weapons Cost: 1,600,000 C-Bills
Equipment Cost: 0 C-Bills
Ammo Cost: 0 C-Bills

Engine: 320 Standard Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel Internals
Armor Type: Standard Armor
Heat Sinks: 37 (12) Standard Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 100.00
Speed: 55.7 kph
Armor Total: 592
Alpha Strike Damage: 36.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 53.76%
Firepower: 9.11 dps
Heat Efficiency: 42.06%
Effective Range of Loadout: 675m

Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 64/84
Right Rear Torso: 20/84
Center Torso: 96/124
Center Rear Torso: 28/124
Left Torso: 64/84
Left Rear Torso: 20/84
Right Arm: 68/68
Left Arm: 68/68
Right Leg: 73/84
Left Leg: 73/84

Weapons Locations
Right Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser
Left Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser

Heat Sink Locations
Right Torso: 9

Left Torso: 9

Center Torso: 2

Head: 1

Right Leg: 2

Left Leg: 2

[Immitem]

It all depends on the build but right now I am 550,000 credits away from mounting doubles on my Commando. One mech as far as I can tell that would not benefit from this is the Quad AC5 Cataphract.

[Super Mono]

In a separate thread Garth said engine sinks were made 2.0 to help benefit heavy mechs, except that'd only give them a couple heatsink advantage over lighter mechs, most of which would be customized to have the big fat engines anyway for max speed so they'd reap the full benefit of 2.0 cooling while energy heavy assault mechs get to overheat like pigs. Despite the Jenner and Cicada medium laser boogey man being the main reason they don't want full 2.0 heatsinks in the first place.

Garth doesn't know what he's talking about or what answers their designs gives to these questions.

[The Cheese]

Crit space and weight are the deciders here. If you've got a lot of free crits, but not much weight, go the DHS. If you've got a lot of weight and crits, go the singles. If you've got little free weight and few free crits, then you ned to reassess your build.

To answer your question, yes, I still use SHS in some builds.

[Pr8Dator]

I always upgrade to DHS only because I don't want to have to add additional heatsinks and just want to use engine heatsinks.

[EyebrowZing]

I run single heatsinks on my non-primary grinding mechs. That is, the second or third variant of a type that I use only for gaining basic efficiencies so I can upgrade my primary to elite. after I'm done with these I strip them of parts I can use on the next mech and sell it off to afford another type and start over. Sinking the extra 1.5 million into these temp mechs just so I can fire ten seconds longer before overheating just isn't worth it for for the week I play the mech before moving on to the next.
Yes I run with a slight heat disadvantage, but I'm still competative playing cheap and watching heat. I would hate for the gap to be widened further. I've always liked the unique mechanic the Mechwarrior games have of heat monitoring keeping the game from being like 'just another big robot shooter' by adding the extra level of managment and tactics, and I hope they don't change that.

[Crunk Prime]

Quote

In a separate thread Garth said engine sinks were made 2.0 to help benefit heavy mechs, except that'd only give them a couple heatsink advantage over lighter mechs, most of which would be customized to have the big fat engines anyway for max speed so they'd reap the full benefit of 2.0 cooling while energy heavy assault mechs get to overheat like pigs. Despite the Jenner and Cicada medium laser boogey man being the main reason they don't want full 2.0 heatsinks in the first place.

Quote

Crit space and weight are the deciders here. If you've got a lot of free crits, but not much weight, go the DHS. If you've got a lot of weight and crits, go the singles. If you've got little free weight and few free crits, then you ned to reassess your build.

I still dont know why they havent given larger mechs more crit slots. Makes no sense for smaller mechs to have the same amount, so they can boat more heatsinks, while heavies and assaults are left running hot all day because their weapons take up lots of crit slots.

[Walrus Jockey]

Completely depends on the chassis, variant, and build. Sometimes you can use DHS, and sometimes its just feasible.

[TruePoindexter]

Crunk Prime, on 10 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

I still dont know why they havent given larger mechs more crit slots. Makes no sense for smaller mechs to have the same amount, so they can boat more heatsinks, while heavies and assaults are left running hot all day because their weapons take up lots of crit slots.

Given the freak out over non-2.0 DHS what do you think would happen with messing with TT's layout model?

[Alcatraz968]

Super Mono, on 10 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

In a separate thread Garth said engine sinks were made 2.0 to help benefit heavy mechs, except that'd only give them a couple heatsink advantage over lighter mechs, most of which would be customized to have the big fat engines anyway for max speed so they'd reap the full benefit of 2.0 cooling while energy heavy assault mechs get to overheat like pigs. Despite the Jenner and Cicada medium laser boogey man being the main reason they don't want full 2.0 heatsinks in the first place.

Garth doesn't know what he's talking about or what answers their designs gives to these questions.

Hey, i am one of those Jenner's and running doubles as they currently are. I ruin the day of many unaware heavy mech's. Many if they are hyper focusing will not even notice me before falling dead (Including atlases).

Personally, i only use doubles, but i see them useful on heavy and assault mechs.

[IamTheEggMan]

Some builds SHS works better for, some DHS. It's good that its not a strict upgrade, and I feel pgi has balanced them well.

[MuonNeutrino]

Doubles go on everything except for mechs I don't care about and am only grinding to master the ones I do (like the other two ravens). I'd rather save the 1.5 mil and just suffer through poor heat management until I'm done with them since I'm just planning on selling them anyway. And I've yet to find a mech that I actually wanted to use where DHS didn't represent a massive advantage in coming up with a good build.

I know that it's possible to find a few builds that are better off under SHS than DHS. It isn't common, though, and in the vast majority of cases you're better off with DHS even if it requires a bit of reworking. It's mostly because of the 2.0 engine DHS, too - starting at 2.0 heat dissipation/sec is just too big a hill for a competing SHS loadout to climb in the vast majority of cases.

[p00k]

TruePoindexter, on 10 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Thinly veiled DHS 2.0 thread is thinly veiled.

I'll just leave this here:

Spoiler

Chassis Name: Atlas
Model Name: AS7-RS
Variant Name: 4 ERL

Engine Cost: 1,280,000 C-Bills
Heat Sink Cost: 54,000 C-Bills
Armor Cost: 190,304 C-Bills
Weapons Cost: 1,600,000 C-Bills
Equipment Cost: 0 C-Bills
Ammo Cost: 0 C-Bills

Engine: 320 Standard Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel Internals
Armor Type: Standard Armor
Heat Sinks: 37 (12) Standard Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 100.00
Speed: 55.7 kph
Armor Total: 592
Alpha Strike Damage: 36.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 53.76%
Firepower: 9.11 dps
Heat Efficiency: 42.06%
Effective Range of Loadout: 675m

Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 64/84
Right Rear Torso: 20/84
Center Torso: 96/124
Center Rear Torso: 28/124
Left Torso: 64/84
Left Rear Torso: 20/84
Right Arm: 68/68
Left Arm: 68/68
Right Leg: 73/84
Left Leg: 73/84

Weapons Locations
Right Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser
Left Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser

Heat Sink Locations
Right Torso: 9

Left Torso: 9

Center Torso: 2

Head: 1

Right Leg: 2

Left Leg: 2

ironic, in that, with dhs i can get you 39.6 shs equivalent, still keeping a standard engine (and making you move at 61 since you're factoring speed tweak), same armor, with a ton to spare

[dal10]

honestly I would have made outside heatsinks doubles and engines 1.4 heat sinks. would help out mediums and heavies quite a bit, but not so much assaults and lights.

[thenightisdark]

TruePoindexter, on 10 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Thinly veiled DHS 2.0 thread is thinly veiled.

I'll just leave this here:

Spoiler

Chassis Name: Atlas
Model Name: AS7-RS
Variant Name: 4 ERL

Engine Cost: 1,280,000 C-Bills
Heat Sink Cost: 54,000 C-Bills
Armor Cost: 190,304 C-Bills
Weapons Cost: 1,600,000 C-Bills
Equipment Cost: 0 C-Bills
Ammo Cost: 0 C-Bills

Engine: 320 Standard Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel Internals
Armor Type: Standard Armor
Heat Sinks: 37 (12) Standard Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 100.00
Speed: 55.7 kph
Armor Total: 592
Alpha Strike Damage: 36.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 53.76%
Firepower: 9.11 dps
Heat Efficiency: 42.06%
Effective Range of Loadout: 675m

Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 64/84
Right Rear Torso: 20/84
Center Torso: 96/124
Center Rear Torso: 28/124
Left Torso: 64/84
Left Rear Torso: 20/84
Right Arm: 68/68
Left Arm: 68/68
Right Leg: 73/84
Left Leg: 73/84

Weapons Locations
Right Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser
Left Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser

Heat Sink Locations
Right Torso: 9

Left Torso: 9

Center Torso: 2

Head: 1

Right Leg: 2

Left Leg: 2

I can improve this atlas.

Would you agree Faster and More heat disapated is better? Of course it is.

Same atlas, but STD 360 engine, all same weapons and armor, and that leaves you with 24 double heatsinks.

Heat Sinks: 37 (12) Standard Heat Sinks
vs
Heat Sinks: 24 (14) Standard Heat Sinks

The math for standard HS is 37 is 37. But how much is 24 doubles?

My math is : 20 heat disapated from 10 engine HS at 2.0 heat. Then 14 more 1.4 heat disapated. 20 + (1.4*14)= 39.6

39.6 compared to 37. And faster to boot.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

I find it silly that most mechs visibly have heat sinks on their ankle area yet you can not put a double sink on each leg...there should be a way to make 1 per leg fit, be it 3 slots or have a hidden 3rd slot for a sink to go there(kinda like the sinks that come with engines) Just seems wrong that if I choose Doubles that I cant mount the traditional sink in legs.

[Inappropriate1191]

I don't use DHS in any of my builds. I favor endosteel internal structure, and need the room more than I need the tonnage, so, even when I bought the Awesome-9M, DHS was the first thing to go.

3 slots and 40% better heat dissipation? Not worth it. Maybe if DHS only took 2 slots, and didn't cost an arm and a nut to repair, I'd go with them.

That said, they do have their place. Seems like that place is usually in lighter mechs that need tonnage and heat dissipation more than they need space, but, for heavier mechs, they generally aren't worth it.

Edited by FU2, 10 December 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Looking over my gigantic mechbay, there are a lot of gundams that use singles, but they wouldn't benefit a lot from dubs, anyway. Gausscat? Swayback? I have centurions that still run them no problem.

If it was a free upgrade, it'd be on everything.