112 replies to this topic

[Sumbi]

SHS = Overheat

I Always use DHS.

[Farmer]

Frenor, on 11 December 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

How is the bar broken for almost .. hell lets say two months?

Really? Really? You're asking that question about this game? Really?

We have things that have been broken, untouched by fixes, since the second round of CB invites went out...

[Wizard Steve]

Rather than 'everyone uses DHS so just make them all 2.0,' I read the OP's post as 'everyone uses DHS so they need to be nerfed more to make SHS more attractive.'

[Apoc1138]

if you want (or need) 40 SHS on a build then the only way to do it is with singles (and an XL engine to save the weight you need to do it)
around 30-34 you can go either way, and at 20 it's a no brainer to use DHS as they are all in the engine saving you 10 tons of weight for 0 crits

what I don't quite get is that they said they wanted 2.0 and 1.4 because otherwise light mechs become OP... but the current system penalises heavier mechs more than lighter mechs... an all round 1.7-1.8 would be the same or slightly worse for light mechs and give back some to heavier mechs

DHS are absolutely a no brainer on light mechs that usually wouldn't carry all that many external sinks anyway, the only time there's a "choice" for singles is on the heaviest assault builds where crits become an issue using DHS'

Edited by Apoc1138, 11 December 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[FiveDigits]

Super Mono, on 10 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

In a separate thread Garth said engine sinks were made 2.0 to help benefit heavy mechs, except that'd only give them a couple heatsink advantage over lighter mechs, most of which would be customized to have the big fat engines anyway for max speed so they'd reap the full benefit of 2.0 cooling while energy heavy assault mechs get to overheat like pigs. Despite the Jenner and Cicada medium laser boogey man being the main reason they don't want full 2.0 heatsinks in the first place.

Garth doesn't know what he's talking about or what answers their designs gives to these questions.

This. A thousand times this.

[Taizan]

Imo the only reason to not field doubles is penny-pinching on the upgrade cost.

[Outfoxed]

Not to mention when you have tonnage to spare and want the full 3 heatsinks over that one 1.4.

And I agree, give us the full 2.0 doubles on all heatsinks.

[Urza Mechwalker]

I use single heat sinks in my assaults. I can usually end up with far more heat sinking capability this way.

Apoc1138, on 11 December 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

what I don't quite get is that they said they wanted 2.0 and 1.4 because otherwise light mechs become OP... but the current system penalises heavier mechs more than lighter mechs... an all round 1.7-1.8 would be the same or slightly worse for light mechs and give back some to heavier mechs

DHS are absolutely a no brainer on light mechs that usually wouldn't carry all that many external sinks anyway, the only time there's a "choice" for singles is on the heaviest assault builds where crits become an issue using DHS'

That is because the guys that wrote that were lying or were stupid or was deceived by someoen lyign or stupid that cannto foresse what the entire forum was able to foresee.

That type of statement just prooves that their balancing peopel are not up to the task

[SirLANsalot]

Immitem, on 10 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

It all depends on the build but right now I am 550,000 credits away from mounting doubles on my Commando. One mech as far as I can tell that would not benefit from this is the Quad AC5 Cataphract.

Nope. Works quite well.

Cataphract 4x
Upgrades: DHS, Endo-steel
Weapons: 4x AC/5, 2x ML, 1 SRM4 (or streak)
Ammo: 6 tons AC/5, 1 ton SRM (or streak)
Eng: XL 225
This build uses every crit on the mech, and since its a 225 you only need to place one HS on the mech, the other 9 are in the eng. Heat is a non issue when firing the AC/5s and you only warm up a little bit if firing the ML with it. You can forgo the SRM in the head for 2 more tons of AC/5 if need be, but never take out those ML as you will NEED them if you run out of ammo.




As for the topic. DHS IS A MUST ON ALL MECHS. Crit issues only occur if you are using Endo-steel on the bigger mechs. However since you are a bigger mech you have the tonnage to be able to handle the extra weight anyways. Also since you are a big mech you are going to NEED every big of cooling you can get, since you are using bigger, hotter, guns. Only lights and certain mediums can get away with using both DHS and Endo since those mechs use smaller, less crit slotted guns.

[Tokra]

TruePoindexter, on 10 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Thinly veiled DHS 2.0 thread is thinly veiled.

I'll just leave this here:

Spoiler

Chassis Name: Atlas
Model Name: AS7-RS
Variant Name: 4 ERL

Engine Cost: 1,280,000 C-Bills
Heat Sink Cost: 54,000 C-Bills
Armor Cost: 190,304 C-Bills
Weapons Cost: 1,600,000 C-Bills
Equipment Cost: 0 C-Bills
Ammo Cost: 0 C-Bills

Engine: 320 Standard Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel Internals
Armor Type: Standard Armor
Heat Sinks: 37 (12) Standard Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 100.00
Speed: 55.7 kph
Armor Total: 592
Alpha Strike Damage: 36.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 53.76%
Firepower: 9.11 dps
Heat Efficiency: 42.06%
Effective Range of Loadout: 675m

Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 64/84
Right Rear Torso: 20/84
Center Torso: 96/124
Center Rear Torso: 28/124
Left Torso: 64/84
Left Rear Torso: 20/84
Right Arm: 68/68
Left Arm: 68/68
Right Leg: 73/84
Left Leg: 73/84

Weapons Locations
Right Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser
Left Arm:
(2) ER Large Laser

Heat Sink Locations
Right Torso: 9

Left Torso: 9

Center Torso: 2

Head: 1

Right Leg: 2

Left Leg: 2

Sorry to say, but even this mech would be way better with DHS instead of single.

And dont come with "not enough crit slots".

- remove the endo steal (-5t)
- remove 12 heatsinks (+12t)
- change to DHS
- change the engine to 350 (-7t)
- add 4 heatsinks to the engine
- place the remaining 11 heatsinks in arms and torso.
- change your mech to a faster, more cooling one (equal to 41 single HS).

You can even remove a few more HS, or use a smaller engine to add even more weapons or stuff like AMS.

Honestly, there no mech that is not running better with DHS.

[Inveramsay]

I run cats and various lights and DHS feels like a mandatory upgrade for all my mechs. If the upgrade was 1.4x in the engine and extra sinks 2.0 I might think about it. It's a shame it is like that, my double heat sinks have costed me a lot of cbills and you get none of them back when you sell the mech

[Apoc1138]

Tokra, on 11 December 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Honestly, there no mech that is not running better with DHS.

I have 40 SHS on an RS atlas with 4 PPC's in the arms
I tried DHS and could only get up to about 34 dissipation because I ran out of crits and I didn't have enough weight spare to run a 350 engine

I don't think you can fit 11 DHS' on a mech with LL's either, maybe 10 but not 11

Edited by Apoc1138, 11 December 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[Tokra]

thenightisdark, on 10 December 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

I can improve this atlas.

Would you agree Faster and More heat disapated is better? Of course it is.

Same atlas, but STD 360 engine, all same weapons and armor, and that leaves you with 24 double heatsinks.

Heat Sinks: 37 (12) Standard Heat Sinks
vs
Heat Sinks: 24 (14) Standard Heat Sinks

The math for standard HS is 37 is 37. But how much is 24 doubles?

My math is : 20 heat disapated from 10 engine HS at 2.0 heat. Then 14 more 1.4 heat disapated. 20 + (1.4*14)= 39.6

39.6 compared to 37. And faster to boot.

If i am not wrong you are a few crit row short with this (like 5), arnt you?
47 total.
14 for Endo
30 for DHS
8 for the 4 ERLL

[SirLANsalot]

Don't forget DHS becomes 1.5 after the elite cool run and the eng ones are close to 2.1 I think.

Tokra, on 11 December 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

If i am not wrong you are a few crit row short with this (like 5), arnt you?
47 total.
14 for Endo
30 for DHS
8 for the 4 ERLL

Forget endo, don't use it if you are using DHS, you won't have the crits for it. Your a big mech, you can handle the extra wight easy anyways.

[Tokra]

Terran123rd, on 10 December 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

I see no need to use doubles. Really, I don't. My 3 ML/SRM4 Ankle-Biter Commando 1-B does more than good enough with 14 singles.

I just practice heat-control. Never overheated, even on Caustic.

This means you must cheating or lying. With this setup on Caustic, you cant even fire your weapons each 10 sec without overheating.

Adding DHS to this mech will make it better. WAY better.
Unless of course your want to castrate yourself with less heatsinks. But why dont you go down to 10? Its just a question of "heat-control"......

Changing your mech to 25 heatsinks is not better than your current with only 14? Tell this someone else .

Edited by Tokra, 11 December 2012 - 03:08 AM.

[Apoc1138]

SirLANsalot, on 11 December 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Don't forget DHS becomes 1.5 after the elite cool run and the eng ones are close to 2.1 I think.

Forget endo, don't use it if you are using DHS, you won't have the crits for it. Your a big mech, you can handle the extra wight easy anyways.

your first point is a bit moot, as it applies to singles heatsinks as much as doubles, the difference between the 2 is still the same

but yeah, endo only saves you 5 tons on an atlas but costs 14 crits... if you are interested in DHS' then endo is the first thing to drop... for a support atlas if you were short on weight, you would be better off considering an XL engine as it will save you something like 10 tons for only 6 crits - but it also loses you 2 DHS from the side torsos

Edited by Apoc1138, 11 December 2012 - 02:57 AM.

[Tokra]

Apoc1138, on 11 December 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

I have 40 SHS on an RS atlas with 4 PPC's in the arms
I tried DHS and could only get up to about 34 dissipation because I ran out of crits and I didn't have enough weight spare to run a 350 engine

I don't think you can fit 11 DHS' on a mech with LL's either, maybe 10 but not 11

Check a bit further up. There is my idea with 4 LL (or ERLL) and 25 DHS (equal to 41 single).
Always the question if PPC or ERLL are better.

Let me guess. Your Atlas has an 300XL, 40 SHS, 4 PPCs and 16.5t armor?

True. This one is not able to fit the same amount in DHS. But one question remains:
Is this mech, with 4 PPCs and 40 SHS combined with an XL engine better than a faster mech with 4 ER-LL (or normal LL), DHS equal to 41 single and no XL engine?

[Apoc1138]

Tokra, on 11 December 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Check a bit further up. There is my idea with 4 LL (or ERLL) and 25 DHS (equal to 41 single).
Always the question if PPC or ERLL are better.

Let me guess. Your Atlas has an 300XL, 40 SHS, 4 PPCs and 16.5t armor?

True. This one is not able to fit the same amount in DHS. But one question remains:
Is this mech, with 4 PPCs and 40 SHS combined with an XL engine better than a faster mech with 4 ER-LL (or normal LL), DHS equal to 41 single and no XL engine?

I can't remember what engine I have, but it is an XL because I needed the tonnage to fit more heatsinks
with 2 PPC's on each arm you can't fit any DHS on the arms which limits you to about 8 in the side torsos plus whatever you can fit in the engine, which is 2 with a standard engine which restricts you to 34 diss with DHS'

don't know, can the LL mech one shot a hunchback? or reliably knock the arms off most other mechs in a single shot?
not when I'm playing it, that's for sure, I have real issues getting laser damage all on a single spot

Edited by Apoc1138, 11 December 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[DivineEvil]

DHS benefit Ballistic builds over Energy builds, and also benefit Lights over Assaults. Does everyone finds it just hilarious?

[Phoenix182]

The disconnect, to me, is that they kept DHS 3 slots, but dropped the dissipation. If they want doubles to dissipate less, fine...but then they need to take them down to two crit slots, not 3. They've already shown that this game is NOT canon/TT, so quit holding on to those tropes.