55 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

deadeye mcduck, on 11 December 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Yet another "ECM" thread..... Instead of complaining, try to learn how to counter ECM.

Yeah, take ECM and set yours to counter.

[Thorn Hallis]

Erik Hollister, on 10 December 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Why would anyone play anything but an ECM light now?

Because nothing is more manly then 70 tons of steel.

[One Medic Army]

Or just use lasers/ballistics and ignore it...

[Elkarlo]

I got the Problem with ECM that they improved Cap racing...

Simple Solution:

ECM cloaked Mechs can't cap..

Suddenly a lot of Strategic and Tactic notions will evolve...

[Rifter]

Elkarlo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

I got the Problem with ECM that they improved Cap racing...

Simple Solution:

ECM cloaked Mechs can't cap..

Suddenly a lot of Strategic and Tactic notions will evolve...

This would solve nothing.

Use cloak untill reach cap then switch to counter. You will still have the same issues as you do now.

[Elkarlo]

I wrote it in another thread more specific

ECM Cloaked Mech can't Capture and a Mech running ECCM can't capture either...

So a 8 Man ECM only Mechs can't capture denieng them an important victory option.

This would be a small disadvantage over the huge boost ECM an experienced Player gives.

This would force the ECM Mechs to stand and Fight, improve the importance of non-ECM Mechs
as fire support and Capture Mechs,

Out of 10 games i have around 6 base races...

And thats not how it should be.


Edit.:
And yes i know it would be possible to make Capture teams like 2 Raven + 6 Jenners in Premade all rush in the 6 Jenners start capturing and the 2 Ravens stay guard and most likely they still won... but a tad slower then before...

Edited by Elkarlo, 11 December 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Elkarlo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Out of 10 games i have around 6 base races...

And thats not how it should be.

In the capture the red square game mode? Sounds fine.

[Vassago Rain]

Elkarlo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

I wrote it in another thread more specific

ECM Cloaked Mech can't Capture and a Mech running ECCM can't capture either...

So a 8 Man ECM only Mechs can't capture denieng them an important victory option.

This would be a small disadvantage over the huge boost ECM an experienced Player gives.

This would force the ECM Mechs to stand and Fight, improve the importance of non-ECM Mechs
as fire support and Capture Mechs,

Out of 10 games i have around 6 base races...

And thats not how it should be.


Edit.:
And yes i know it would be possible to make Capture teams like 2 Raven + 6 Jenners in Premade all rush in the 6 Jenners start capturing and the 2 Ravens stay guard and most likely they still won... but a tad slower then before...

Uhmmm, you turn the cloak off when you're on the base already. Because you typically need to counter. You're not good at gamedesign.

[Elkarlo]

Yes but when you run in Countermode you still won't be able to Capture with this Mech.

So the ECM Module kills the possibility that this Mech can Capture at all.
And when it Cloaks it kills the Possibility that ANY friendly Mech within 180 Meters can Cap.

I described the optimum way with the new rules for a capture lance. Two cloaker and 6 Capture Mechs.
And thats when you play simply on cloaking and hope that the Enemy don't have Medium or fast Heavy's to block it.

This would simply buy time.
And reduce the effectivness of the all ECM teams.

Or a Team with 6 ECM and 2 Capture Mechs is very likely to get outcaptured, or worse, one of the non-ECM mechs got killed..

So in the End it would improve the variety of Mech Usability, as it would make sense to have Non-ECM Mechs in a Team. And a good Mix of 4 ECM and 4 Non ECM would be essential for a winning.


Edit.:
Gamedesign is about making small changes and thinking about the Possibilitys how it would inflict on gameplay.

A Change like:
Ecm Covered Mechs or Mechs with operational ECM Module onboard can't capture.

would be a Small rule, but would improve Gameplay by far.

Atm the Gameplay is: Get as many ECM Modules into your Team, and get your Mechs as fast as possible into the Base because it's likely to have a Cap Race.


The Get as Many ECM Modules Aspect would negate the Cap Race aspect,
when a ECM equipt Mech can't Capture.

And the Reason why we so many Cap races is:

Even if you spread out, an ECM Heavy Enemy will overrun your Scouts as his first warning would be: Low signal... then he dies in 20 sek and you have lost them again.

So classic Light Scout Work scouting is not done, and you have a 50% chance to hit the enemy on your way to the base. And the Second warning you get that he is near your base is: Base is under attack, when his first Raven enters the base.

Edited by Elkarlo, 11 December 2012 - 03:29 AM.

[Rifter]

Elkarlo, on 11 December 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

Yes but when you run in Countermode you still won't be able to Capture with this Mech.

So the ECM Module kills the possibility that this Mech can Capture at all.
And when it Cloaks it kills the Possibility that ANY friendly Mech within 180 Meters can Cap.

I described the optimum way with the new rules for a capture lance. Two cloaker and 6 Capture Mechs.
And thats when you play simply on cloaking and hope that the Enemy don't have Medium or fast Heavy's to block it.

This would simply buy time.
And reduce the effectivness of the all ECM teams.

Or a Team with 6 ECM and 2 Capture Mechs is very likely to get outcaptured, or worse, one of the non-ECM mechs got killed..

So in the End it would improve the variety of Mech Usability, as it would make sense to have Non-ECM Mechs in a Team. And a good Mix of 4 ECM and 4 Non ECM would be essential for a winning.

Still really wouldnt solve issue of caprushing with ECM if people put some thought into it.

Run 8 lights with ECM all in right leg(ecm only 2 crits, great for filling leg spaces).

Get to enemy cap by rushing as fast as possible.

Leg each others right leg once on the cap.

Cap to victory in 10 seconds or less with 8 mechs on cap.

Laugh all the way to the bank as repairs for only a lost leg on a light are like 2,000 cbills.

[Elkarlo]

And destroyed ECM of 50k... but yes i understand... on the other side it will reduce problems.

Because next time you have an D-DC waiting in ECm and when they start shooting you walk in and join the fun and shot the right legs.

Edited by Elkarlo, 11 December 2012 - 03:40 AM.

[Omni Tek]

Could always try removing the red square.

[Jakspanky]

I love the ECM its actually make light mechs more useful they are needed on a battle field now more than ever. Makes flanking awesome and encourages team work. It does make LRM boats almost redundant and makes streakcats lives difficult. The main problem i have with light mechs is that usually 7 members of my group all chase it while the heavy/assualt mech rip them to pieces. although i did watch a raven take out out an atlas catapult and a jenner to win the match those guys must have deleted there accounts after that one.

[Wingbreaker]

Vassago Rain, on 11 December 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Uhmmm, you turn the cloak off when you're on the base already. Because you typically need to counter. You're not good at gamedesign.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't every MMO do this?

[Grits N Gravy]

The ECM just needs it's weight and crit slot spaces upped to reflect it effectiveness. On an ECM capable mech it's not a tough decision to run an ECM module, because at 1.5 tons 2 crit spots you're not giving up much and gaining a lot. The ECM should be a 15 ton 7 critical slot weapon. This would force you to make some tough tactical decisions about equipping it. In the smaller mechs, you would either strip out armor, go down in engine size, or strip out other weapons. FYI a commando with a 1 ton 100 rated engine still moves at 64 kph. The DDC would have to give up fire power, at which it may become more of a liability than an asset.

This would make ECM mechs solely a support vehicle. In pugs this would reduce the overall prevalence of ECM's. For organized play it would force dropship commanders to think tactically about their group composition and weigh out questions like; How much firepower should be given up for ECM, and where would deploying said ECM give the team the best advantage. Right now ECM is to ubiquitous because, tactically it costs nothing to run and has great upside.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kahna, on 10 December 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

ECM nullifies everything and is only countered by itself. You can thank the crowd that is always crying 'nerf' and damn whatever consequences it might bring.

So someone else has noticed this failure on the DEVs ability to listen?!