19 replies to this topic

[PropagandaWar]

Man 8v8 for the first time was just brutal to my group last night. I know we are usually outtonned so we brought in heavy hitters last night and I think were going back to Specializing. Thanks for reminding me why we don't like assaults in our company guys Sheesh.

[Tennex]

lol this isn't exactly specific. did you guys get rocked by all ECM ravens/commandos or something

[PropagandaWar]

Oh the usual. Assault ECM lances from hell, ravens ect. But we were smacked on a even tonned lance too so overal bad night. Usually we win or tie more than we lose. However last night was 1 win 6 losses I think. I was miffed about the ravens because they dont take damage for crap and can streak, but I was in an inferioir mech and they played well. At least we're not discouraged, but trying new tactics can be extremely painful. Oh and I wish they would put cannons torsos on those Mother F'ing Thundercats and Gausspults. Srm 6 cats and streak cats are legit but Tcats and Gaussapults are just so bs still in form of cosmetics.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 12 December 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[Xibeco]

Same thing for my team. We do great in 4-man teams but on the rare occasion when we can muster 8 together for a drop, we get stomped. I wish I could say it was because of the tonnage imbalance, too much ECM, or some other cheeseball reason. In most of the cases we are simply out played. The worst part is I'm not sure what we're doing wrong or what to do differently. We try to adhere to the basics; stay together and focus fire. Maybe we just need more practice.

[PropagandaWar]

Tonnange vs tonnage we are generally pretty successful. Even outtonned a bit we do ok. I think my problem was I started playing "The game" piloting a raven when I dont even like them bringing in 3 assaults ect. Bad move on my part. I was clueless on how to lead the assault mechs in. But you dont know if you dont try right. BTW Xib if your ever short people and want to do 8 mans go to www.teamcored our TS is on ther we usually have enough people on to get one going. I try and run the Beserker BYOM group a couple nights a week.

[Kdogg788]

A lot of people rush to blame ECM, but it's really the matchmaking that needs to change. Our team was heavy on mediums and a few lights (I'm still mastering the Jenners out), and we got rolled by Atlas squads or basecap light squads rushwinning with all ECMs and cap modules. Played the same team twice in a row. The first time they capped while I dueled a light on their base. The second time the went Jenner highway and even in a tweaked Jenner, I couldn't get back from less than half map.

-k

[PropagandaWar]

Yeah we lost on a basecap one while we were duking it out. My conversation with my team is if we dont rely on missles why should we be seriously effected by ecms other than turning the wrong corner from bad intel. One thing that I do find funny is ECM is equippable on the missle toting varients of mechs which seems a bit off. Not that I think it OP's em but they do get the radar advantage already being able to lock when your opponent can't doesnt seem well thought out.

[Kraven Kor]

PropagandaWar, on 12 December 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Yeah we lost on a basecap one while we were duking it out. My conversation with my team is if we dont rely on missles why should we be seriously effected by ecms other than turning the wrong corner from bad intel. One thing that I do find funny is ECM is equippable on the missle toting varients of mechs which seems a bit off. Not that I think it OP's em but they do get the radar advantage already being able to lock when your opponent can't doesnt seem well thought out.

Well, at the same time, it does give Lone Wolf players an option to use missiles without needing a buddy.

And last night was brutal for me too. We were basically just practicing, trying different things, and I wasn't with my usual group per se, but yeah... ugly. Like 2 for 10 I think, and one of those was a base cap rush (they rushed ours, we split and distracted them while capping theirs once it was obvious both teams had went too far to come back to base in time lol.)

[Joseph Mallan]

Prop... Why wouldn't you equip a Missile boat with ECM. It normally does not have to move much so reducing weapon lock on one is a good idea. Just saying it does give a fairly stable no missile zone for your team to fall back to. Food for thought. It also allows for ECCM v one ECM light.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 December 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[Orzorn]

PropagandaWar, on 12 December 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Man 8v8 for the first time was just brutal to my group last night. I know we are usually outtonned so we brought in heavy hitters last night and I think were going back to Specializing. Thanks for reminding me why we don't like assaults in our company guys Sheesh.

I had plenty of fun fighting ya'll last night.

And, yes, assaults don't help as much as some people like to think they do. We were unusually heavy last night with 4 assaults, but that's because we have a lance that specializes in that sort of stuff. Usually, we run a mix of lights with some mediums and then the other half is cataphracts (one of which is guaranteed to be MwHighlander), a dragon (me), and usually just a single assault (Vlad Ward).

Honestly, after these last few days of constant 8v8 action, I think playing to the strengths of the map is the most important thing. In forest colony, we NEVER go north. Its a death trap. We instead take the little hill by the coast (if we spawn on the west side) and that gives us a view of the water, the beach, the arch, and we can have someone watch the cave. On frozen city, we walk up to the hill and stay to the side closest to the glacier, and keep our long range spread out in the ice field. This means that if anybody runs over the hill (or they zerg rush us), we're spread out enough that we won't get confused by the action. We can easily focus fire anybody who comes over. In addition, this puts us in an excellent spot to quickly respond to anybody who might want to come through the crevasse. If the entire team comes through, we can resposition in just a few seconds and start wiping them out.

These strategies have worked with very little of it based on our team composition. We sometimes have a wide variety of mechs, and taking these positions seems to work well most of the time.

Not to toot our own horns, but we lost only a single match last night, if I recall correctly.

Edited by Orzorn, 12 December 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[BlightFang]

I'm a bit behind in the 8v8 meta-game since I don't play it. Has it been proven that 8 jenners is not a good composition vs 8 atlases?

[Shiney]

8v8 is brutal, tough and challenging and a pain to set up with people coming and going all of the time, but it's defiantly the best games to be playing. I like them a lot, though it's rather ECM and tonnage centric currently, tweaking the numbers basically. With 4's I can run anything I like, on 8's pretty much have to do Heavy-raven-DDC

[PropagandaWar]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Prop... Why wouldn't you equip a Missile boat with ECM. It normally does not have to move much so reducing weapon lock on one is a good idea. Just saying it does give a fairly stable no missile zone for your team to fall back to. Food for thought.

We discussed that. Personally Im a a med mech pilot and always used SRMS for missles and giving up a med las for tag hard for me to swallow but I will see how it works. I put Streaks on one Cent Varient I use but only as a UAC backup I can put tag in a laser point on that one. I think I have only one atlas pilot that likes toting lrms however. One thing I noticed was the pug matches very few people run ECM's I found that odd.

[PropagandaWar]

Orzorn, on 12 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

I had plenty of fun fighting ya'll last night.

And, yes, assaults don't help as much as some people like to think they do. We were unusually heavy last night with 4 assaults, but that's because we have a lance that specializes in that sort of stuff. Usually, we run a mix of lights with some mediums and then the other half is cataphracts (one of which is guaranteed to be MwHighlander), a dragon (me), and usually just a single assault (Vlad Ward).

Honestly, after these last few days of constant 8v8 action, I think playing to the strengths of the map is the most important thing. In forest colony, we NEVER go north. Its a death trap. We instead take the little hill by the coast (if we spawn on the west side) and that gives us a view of the water, the beach, the arch, and we can have someone watch the cave. On frozen city, we walk up to the hill and stay to the side closest to the glacier, and keep our long range spread out in the ice field. This means that if anybody runs over the hill (or they zerg rush us), we're spread out enough that we won't get confused by the action. We can easily focus fire anybody who comes over. In addition, this puts us in an excellent spot to quickly respond to anybody who might want to come through the crevasse. If the entire team comes through, we can resposition in just a few seconds and start wiping them out.

These strategies have worked with very little of it based on our team composition. We sometimes have a wide variety of mechs, and taking these positions seems to work well most of the time.

Not to toot our own horns, but we lost only a single match last night, if I recall correctly.

Lol. There were some damn good plays last night and we were losing fair and square. I agree on terrain I'm a big advocate of it and if used properly can be used for grand deceptions (Our good game last night used that). Our first game on frozen city we were rushed and if we had used the buildings properly I doubt we would have been roflstomped.

[dal10]

BlightFang, on 12 December 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'm a bit behind in the 8v8 meta-game since I don't play it. Has it been proven that 8 jenners is not a good composition vs 8 atlases?

it is a horrible composition against 8 atlases. course 8 atlases has all the tactics of trying to ram a bunch of battleships into a group of destroyers, can be done, but also is just as easy to waste them.

[Orzorn]

BlightFang, on 12 December 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'm a bit behind in the 8v8 meta-game since I don't play it. Has it been proven that 8 jenners is not a good composition vs 8 atlases?

8 Atlases is pretty awful. We've fought those teams and soundly demolish them every time. Perhaps if they were all skilled players they could pull through, but then again, isn't a skilled team supposed to be more likely to win anways? It would only be a problem if teams of equal skill lost every time to 8 Atlases.

The other team comp I see WAY too often is 4 Ravens and 4 Atlases, every single one of them with ECM. Once again, we totally stomp them, usually losing 0 to 1 person.

The trick is to build your team so that ECM basically does nothing. Drop the LRMs and SSRMs (unless you carry TAG and make a concerted effort), switch to direct fire power houses. Those ECM's become 20 tons (8 ECM * 2 tons per) wasted.

[Fais]

Yea 8v8 is the way to go, We are winning mostly, I think we won 9 out of 12 matches last night. We usually field one DDC at most.

[dal10]

I ran with the Karian empire a few nights back, 20 matches 20 wins. most people lost in a match was 3 people in a for the lulz match. we even pugstomped the widowmakers A team 8-2.

Edited by dal10, 12 December 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[Fais]

I think our biggest weakness is that we only have 2 or 3 people that are effective leaders currently. Having the right people online at the same time can make all the difference. We have a tendency to loose our first match too.

[PropagandaWar]

Orzorn, on 12 December 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

8 Atlases is pretty awful. We've fought those teams and soundly demolish them every time. Perhaps if they were all skilled players they could pull through, but then again, isn't a skilled team supposed to be more likely to win anways? It would only be a problem if teams of equal skill lost every time to 8 Atlases.

The other team comp I see WAY too often is 4 Ravens and 4 Atlases, every single one of them with ECM. Once again, we totally stomp them, usually losing 0 to 1 person.

The trick is to build your team so that ECM basically does nothing. Drop the LRMs and SSRMs (unless you carry TAG and make a concerted effort), switch to direct fire power houses. Those ECM's become 20 tons (8 ECM * 2 tons per) wasted.

I agree. Generally as long as I have at least one med pilot with me 2-3 ravens are done for even with lag shield (We all have lag shield to an extent so complaining about it does nothing). I fear the atlas way less than fracts/and the 6srm one shot wonders (I will not wholly aknowledge blaphemous builds T-Cat Gauss Cat). This is excetion to when Im piloting my cidada that things hit or miss. If it gets stuck on something it tends to blow up quick.