30 replies to this topic

[DirePhoenix]

Currently Jump Jets in MWO are giving full jump capacity with only a single jump jet equipped. This is a known issue since closed beta and PGI has said that they will be looking into it, but we have yet to hear any solutions. Here is mine:

What I'm going to suggest may sound odd at first, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. It goes counter to how we've seen jump jets work in previous games, but then again, I don't think any previous MechWarrior games have done justice to jumpjets either, making them at times act like a side-slipping "turbo boost" while other times making them act as a hover-capable jetpack.

The current jumpjet mechanic still works similar to the jetpack idea, in that you have a starting "fuel" reserve that you spend by opening up the throttle with your jets, and then have to manage your reserves so you have enough juice to land without breaking your legs. While familiar, this model fails to capture the feeling of jumping as described in the lore and classic gameplay that this game is supposed to be based on.

My proposition: Make jumping act with a "charging" mechanic. The "jump meter" starts at empty instead of full, you press the spacebar (or whatever you have hotkeyed for jump) to "charge" your jump jets up. The jump meter is demarcated for each jump jet mounted onto the 'mech. Likewise, the jump meter indicates how far you will be launched when you release the spacebar (jump button) since each functioning jump jet has a capacity of 30m.

When you release the jump button, your 'mech will be launched at the specified distance forward in the direction where your torso is pointing, with an apex of 20m at the midpoint of your jump distance (which should give you clearance over "level 3 elevation" obstacles). Airspeed will be based on your 'mech's cruising speed (75% max speed).

While in-flight, you may rotate/spin, but you will maintain your original heading and arc until you touch down. Pressing spacebar while in-flight will fire your landing thrusters, which will slow your vertical descent to a safe speed so as not to damage your legs from falling, but will not allow you to hover. Trajectory will remain the same, although lateral distance may vary depending on terrain elevation (or obstacles such as tall buildings, high cliffs, or DFA targets).

Below I've made a quick diagram that will hopefully illustrate:

The above illustration shows a CPLT-C1 with a 260-rated engine and 4 jump jets. Cruising speed is around 40kph, and the 4 jump jets offer a 120m maximum jump capacity. If the CPLT had charged the jump jets less before releasing the jump button, it would have traveled a shorter distance, but the apex would still be 20m at the midpoint. For example, if it had only charged the jets up to the second demarcation, it would have traveled 60m, with the apex being reached at 30m.

This also means that a Spider at maximum jump capacity could launch itself 240m traveling at 80kph through the air, while an UrbanMech would sail by at a lethargic 20kph for a maximum distance of 60m.

In addition to giving meaning to having additional jump jets, this system could potentially make Death From Above tactics more feasible for skilled pilots. Instead of having to play a helicopter landing simulator on top of their target, they can get the range of their target, aim for their destination, and charge their jets to a point just past where their target will be, and then hurdle themselves like a meteor into their target (use of landing thrusters may not be desired for full collision damage in DFA manuevers).

[Creepy]

That's an interesting idea. What would you suggest for a situation where a mech wants to do a steep climb (basically a short but high jump?)

Edited by Creepy, 11 December 2012 - 01:42 AM.

[DirePhoenix]

Creepy, on 11 December 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

That's an interesting idea. What would you suggest for a situation where a mech wants to do a steep climb (basically a short but high jump?)

Jump height would be 20m over the launch point per jump (which iirc should still be 2m over an Atlas). Distance is determined by how far you charge your jets for. This should also minimize the effect of "poptart" jump sniping, as there would always be some amount of forward momentum to a jump, mechs cannot simply jump up and down in exactly the same place. However, for minimum lateral movement, a simple tap on the jets would launch you 20m up, and a short distance forward (probably 10m minimum).

[Creepy]

Not sure if the 20m limit is all that reflective of tabletop or if it falls in line of the original intended feel. Of course, I haven't played table top since Battledroids made the change to Battletech. I recall being able to jump at least up into a 2 hex height space..

[Ceribus]

So what your proposing is to take away al manual control of jump jumts?... What happen if I want to jet back wards insteadof forwards or am trying to get up on a plateau for vantage? Sorry not really a fan of this

[Roland]

Here's a simpler way of modifying JJ effects:

Have each JJ modify the "size" of the JJ fuel bar.

Thus, if you have more JJ's equipped on a mech, you have more fuel, and thus you can burn your JJ's longer.

This will automatically work with existing mechanics, such that multiple JJ's will result in the ability to jump longer.

This would not really require any modification to the existing system, other than making the JJ bar function similarly to the heat bar, where it's total size is linked to heat capacity of a mech.

[Bors Mistral]

While I dig the idea in the original post, I have an alternative one.

Why not make the whole thing physics based?
- have each jumpjet apply a certain amount of propulsion over time
- factor in mech weight and ground speed at time of jump
- enable the mouse wheel / two keys / whatever to change the vector of the thrust

That would give you the same basic functionality we have now, plus:
- more precise flight paths
- ability to gain small bursts of forward momentum, boosting top speed for periods
- do I dare say it, limited skying capability?

Yeah, I know it's not very canon but so what?

[Rashhaverak]

Roland, on 11 December 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

Here's a simpler way of modifying JJ effects:

Have each JJ modify the "size" of the JJ fuel bar.

Thus, if you have more JJ's equipped on a mech, you have more fuel, and thus you can burn your JJ's longer.

This will automatically work with existing mechanics, such that multiple JJ's will result in the ability to jump longer.

This would not really require any modification to the existing system, other than making the JJ bar function similarly to the heat bar, where it's total size is linked to heat capacity of a mech.

This!

[Deadoon]

Roland, on 11 December 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

Here's a simpler way of modifying JJ effects:

Have each JJ modify the "size" of the JJ fuel bar.

Thus, if you have more JJ's equipped on a mech, you have more fuel, and thus you can burn your JJ's longer.

This will automatically work with existing mechanics, such that multiple JJ's will result in the ability to jump longer.

This would not really require any modification to the existing system, other than making the JJ bar function similarly to the heat bar, where it's total size is linked to heat capacity of a mech.

Basically, that is how they work, however jumpjets really need to have their effectiveness flattened, as in 1 jj on a jenner does the exact same thing as if you put 1 jj on an imaginary atlas. This is pretty much how jjs worked, keep in mind an atlas's jj weighs 2 tons, not .5 to do the same thing. Only thing is an atlas even with a 400 engine, can only mount 4 jj.

I see no problem with poptarting, they are just using their jump capabilities for pot shots and for a high vantage point with a form of deffensive capaciity, because they are rapidly moving targets.

Edited by Deadoon, 11 December 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[Roland]

Deadoon, on 11 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Basically, that is how they work, however jumpjets really need to have their effectiveness flattened, as in 1 jj on a jenner does the exact same thing as if you put 1 jj on an imaginary atlas. This is pretty much how jjs worked, keep in mind an atlas's jj weighs 2 tons, not .5 to do the same thing. Only thing is an atlas even with a 400 engine, can only mount 4 jj.

I see no problem with poptarting, they are just using their jump capabilities for pot shots and for a high vantage point with a form of deffensive capaciity, because they are rapidly moving targets.

I don't think this is how they work currently,do they?

That is, currently, the number of JJ's has absolutely no impact on the mech at all. The total amount of JJ fuel is set, regardless of how many JJ's you have mounted.

[Ronson]

Good idea . I like it .

The true meaning of JUMP-Jet , where it actually makes you JUMP !!

[Deadoon]

Roland, on 11 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

I don't think this is how they work currently,do they?

That is, currently, the number of JJ's has absolutely no impact on the mech at all. The total amount of JJ fuel is set, regardless of how many JJ's you have mounted.

I meant as how jjs are supposed to work in battletech. All jjs provide the same relative lift to their respective mechs a 55 ton mech can jump just as far with the exact same .5 ton jj as a 20 ton mech. Currently there is no benifit to multiple jjs in mwo due to they don't stack.

[DirePhoenix]

Ceribus, on 11 December 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

So what your proposing is to take away al manual control of jump jumts?... What happen if I want to jet back wards insteadof forwards or am trying to get up on a plateau for vantage? Sorry not really a fan of this

Well, you're under the assumption that you have manual control currently, and you don't. Not in the way that you're thinking of. Currently in MWO when you activate your jump jets you slowly lift up and move forward at the speed you're walking/running. As soon as you reach your apex or let go of the thrusters, you start falling. While you can turn around, you're just rotating (the same rotation that I say that you can do mid-flight in my version too), you're not actually changing direction. The difference is that in the current version when you start falling you just fall and you have to rely on your "fuel reserves" to make sure you don't smash your legs.

I don't think you understand how high 20m is either. It's approximately 60 feet high (about a 4 or 5-story building?), and still a decent amount of clearance over an Atlas' head. will you have to figure out how far to charge your thrusters for the trajectory to get on top of that building? Yes, and maybe that takes some "skill" that has to be learned (apex is always at half the charged jump distance, you have a rangefinder in your crosshairs), but I'm pretty sure 20m should be sufficient to overcome most obstacles.

In my version, you're launched at a trajectory based on which direction you're facing (aiming) and how much power you've charged your jets with. you control which way your facing in flight (as current), but your trajectory remains the same. And you always have the capability to land safely (except under the unlikely event that your jump jets get shot out during mid-flight)

Ronson, on 11 December 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Good idea . I like it .

The true meaning of JUMP-Jet , where it actually makes you JUMP !!

Yes, that's my intent. When you jump, you're launched with explosive force and hurtled through the air. Having more jump jets means you can jump further, faster, and charge your jump capacity quicker.

Also I forgot to mention it last night (was tired when I posted it) but also there's the matter of heat. You gain heat relative to the capacity you charge. While a Spider can launch itself 240m at a time, it would also build up as much heat as firing a Large Laser in doing so. I'm not sure that you would be able to control your rotation or landing if you get yourself shut down in mid-flight. (although that could also be hilarious to watch)

Edited by DirePhoenix, 11 December 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Just for *hits and giggles here is the proposed Class V JJ's (likely what is in use now minus the min and max weight values) from the files. There are 4 other Classes that are slated to make it into the game.

Name="JumpJets_ClassV"

<ModuleStats

slots="1"
tons="0.5"
health="10"/>

<JumpJetStats

cooldown="1.0"
duration="5.0"
boost_fwd="0.1"
boost_z="25"
heat="0.1"
minTons="20"
maxTons="40"/>

Edited by MaddMaxx, 11 December 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Jumpjets in LL propel you forward like they are supposed to, if you are holding a directional key. If you stand still you are launched straight up like a rocket. You can also use the directional keys to quickly jump left, right, and reverse.

[Galenit]

Until jumpjets are fixed, the easy way is to adjust their wight.
In the moment 1 jumpjet is enough, so let the 1 jj have the wight, heat and space of the orginal 4 jj in a mech.
Or to make it possible to use them in legs, let them be only 2 crits then the normal 4 they would take.

[Pocket Psycho]

Galenit, on 11 December 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Until jumpjets are fixed, the easy way is to adjust their wight.
In the moment 1 jumpjet is enough, so let the 1 jj have the wight, heat and space of the orginal 4 jj in a mech.
Or to make it possible to use them in legs, let them be only 2 crits then the normal 4 they would take.

I'm not sure what JJ's you're looking at, my Jenner has 5 and they're only 1 crit each, and I can put them in my legs

[Alfred VonGunn]

Remember that currently JJs are working with a single jet like they would with the number the mech is DESIGNED to carry... The Fuel is also that way I believe.. So when they fix them.. those 1 JJ mechs are NOT going to be doing all that much jumping so much as Hopping... That will also bring in a complete redesign of mechs for many people..

Then we will hopefully also be getting a working Collision and damage from said collision soon. Which will give us DFAs finally. As well as real falling damage.. I am getting sick of a Mech without JJs falling off that big bridge in River city and getting almost no damage... It just fell 100+ feet... BAD BAD things should happen to it. Even worse things if he lands on someone..

Same for a few of the cliffs on several of the maps//// Currently terrain is a NON-factor to damage unless your legs are nearly destroyed anyway..

[Deadoon]

Alfred VonGunn, on 11 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Remember that currently JJs are working with a single jet like they would with the number the mech is DESIGNED to carry... The Fuel is also that way I believe.. So when they fix them.. those 1 JJ mechs are NOT going to be doing all that much jumping so much as Hopping... That will also bring in a complete redesign of mechs for many people..

Then we will hopefully also be getting a working Collision and damage from said collision soon. Which will give us DFAs finally. As well as real falling damage.. I am getting sick of a Mech without JJs falling off that big bridge in River city and getting almost no damage... It just fell 100+ feet... BAD BAD things should happen to it. Even worse things if he lands on someone..

Same for a few of the cliffs on several of the maps//// Currently terrain is a NON-factor to damage unless your legs are nearly destroyed anyway..

Mech jump jets do not require fuel, they are merely plasma expelling engines. They use compressed super charged atmosphere to fly. Also each jumpjet, independant of the mech it is on(provided that jj is compatible of that mech, and doesn't have more than it's max based on engine) provides 30 meters of thrust or around 100 feet of jump capability, where you put that jump is up to you though.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Deadoon, on 11 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

Mech jump jets do not require fuel, they are merely plasma expelling engines. They use compressed super charged atmosphere to fly. Also each jumpjet, independant of the mech it is on(provided that jj is compatible of that mech, and doesn't have more than it's max based on engine) provides 30 meters of thrust or around 100 feet of jump capability, where you put that jump is up to you though.

I know HOW they are supposed to work... I am saying that currently they are working as if you have ALL your normal amount on your mech.. Fuel Plasma whatever.. It is a set amount for a set time.. Currently a Mech that comes with 5 JJS standard will jump 150 meters on 1 2 3 4 or 5 jets...