416 replies to this topic

[Lanessar]

borisof007, on 11 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

Guess what? Developing a stable, fast, effective, MMO friendly network environment for code, specifically C++, to run across is incredibly difficult. If it was easy, we wouldn't be having this issue.

PGI is in fact looking to hire on another engineer to help them in this exact department. As part of my profession, I happen to recruit for major fortune 100 companies in the SF Bay Area, and I can tell you that hiring engineers is difficult enough as it is, hiring GOOD engineers who also know gaming environments and networks, and the quirks that come with them is very, very hard.

Patience is a virtue that not everyone has. If you're not willing to suffer through the pains of the early development cycle, then don't play and wait until the game's more mature in a few more months.

The problem wasn't the netcode.

The problem, if you read my post and not get stuck on the buzzword, was the lack of response. This response (which should have been given months ago) occurred three weeks ago.

This is the third response where people divorce the defining text (quoted in bold above) from the issue.

My issue is not with the net code not being fixed, but that it took so long to get a dev posting on that it was a problem.

My entire post was about feedback. It's happening now from the devs, and it's appreciated. The reason why so much angst is that it took so long to address it in a "roadmap" post.

People don't feel like their being listened to. Confidence drops.

Well, hell, I don't feel like I'm being listened to either. I'll stop explaining.

[Dukarriope]

nom de guerre, on 11 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

all their games have been super buggy.

There's a reason they're called Bugthesda, pal. w

[SpiralRazor]

Morsdraco, on 11 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Ok, then fine if it is for all purposes "live", then what? Does that change something fundementally for you?
You realize the Skyrim was game of the year and it STILL is a buggy mess after 2 major DLC patches, yet it was the fastest purchased game on Steam ever, and still is continued to be purchased and played by thousands (most likely ten's of thousands or dare i say millions) of people. Bugs occur. The developers do their best to try and isolate and if possible fix them. This game is actively being developed as you play it. Content is being delivered to you nearly monthly. Bugs are being fixed as fast as the developers can fix them. And it is all free for you if you choose. You didn't have to pay $60 for a buggy game that is still plagued with bugs and memory leaks a year after its release. You all are such an entitled lot.

I dont know about you man, but MY Skyrim runs wonderfully with very few CTDs. MUCH better then Fallout New Vegas, and its graphics are the best.

Know why? Because of Skyrim Nexus and Bethesda letting the community fix and mod the product.

If PGI let us fix those annoying bugs it would be done in 2 weeks, tops. And if they let us upload content for review via modding toolkits ...wow.....this game would develop 200% faster.

Heeden, on 11 December 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

They are.



No it isn't, they even wrote "BETA" on the top of the site to help you understand this.

Its doesnt matter what PGI says, we all know whats true as gauged by comparison. And well because...logic, and we have brains.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 11 December 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Lin Shai]

soarra, on 11 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

most companies do break up into teams. This is coming from personal experience, coding in a little bobblehead is a lot easier than redoing the net code or fixing the ui which both have been addressed by the devs.

A ) They don't have enough people to "break up into teams". They are literally a game mod company that's done a couple really bad console games.
B ) If by "addressed" you mean said "We're working on it" for the last 5 months, with no actual improvement seen nor any forthcoming ... then sure.

They've soft-launched an online, multi-player FPS with network code so bad that they have now decided they need to completely re-write it. And you wonder why people have little faith left that they are going to actually not crash and burn with this project?

[soarra]

Lin Shai, on 11 December 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

A ) They don't have enough people to "break up into teams". They are literally a game mod company that's done a couple really bad console games.
B ) If by "addressed" you mean said "We're working on it" for the last 5 months, with no actual improvement seen nor any forthcoming ... then sure.

They've soft-launched an online, multi-player FPS with network code so bad that they have now decided they need to completely re-write it. And you wonder why people have little faith left that they are going to actually not crash and burn with this project?

1 programmer + 1 graphics guy = team

[Dukarriope]

SpiralRazor, on 11 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

I dont know about you man, but MY Skyrim runs wonderfully with very few CTDs.
MUCH better then Fallout New Vegas, and its graphics are the best.If PGI let us fix those annoying bugs it would be done in 2 weeks, tops. And if they let us upload content for review via modding toolkits ...wow.....this game would develop 200% faster.

My Skyrim runs pretty fine too, although I've broken it myself a few times with bad mods. But very few CTDs or what not otherwise!
And modding, well, the game uses .PAK files - which can be easily opened - just like any other CryENGINE based game.
I even suggested a way to make things easier for us players to get our own personal trinkets in without taxing the server.
It of course got buried under other $@#% in a matter of seconds
There is a point here - if PGI tried holding a few polls to have us so-called Beta testers greenlight most major design decisions before their implementation, it could be better really.

[skamage]

Heeden, on 11 December 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

If it looked like a duck, walked like a duck and quacked like a duck it would be a duck. However it looks like a beta, runs like a beta and plays like a beta. Probably a beta.

But it sure doesn't smell like a beta. No resets and permanent cash transactions. Smells live to me. May smell dead in the near future though.

[soarra]

Dukarriope, on 11 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

My Skyrim runs pretty fine too, although I've broken it myself a few times with bad mods. But very few CTDs or what not otherwise!
And modding, well, the game uses .PAK files - which can be easily opened - just like any other CryENGINE based game.
I even suggested a way to make things easier for us players to get our own personal trinkets in without taxing the server.
It of course got buried under other $@#% in a matter of seconds
There is a point here - if PGI tried holding a few polls to have us so-called Beta testers greenlight most major design decisions before their implementation, it could be better really.

Its easier to implement them on the wide scale of us playing a few days and them getting data and go back and tinker with the numbers.

[Dukarriope]

soarra, on 11 December 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Its easier to implement them on the wide scale of us playing a few days and them getting data and go back and tinker with the numbers.

Isn't that what's happening now? Except that "going back and tinkering with the numbers" right now means we get bashed about by people running imbalanced builds for two weeks.


Wee bit of trivia here. Looking about in the .PAK files, it turns out that the largest of MWO's textures are just 1024x1024 pixels. That's one megapixel. And the burn marks that show up on 'mechs? They're only 128x128. No wonder they look so awful. Other games by comparison are using texture files that are well twice, triple, even ten times that size.

Edited by Dukarriope, 11 December 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[Heeden]

skamage, on 11 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

But it sure doesn't smell like a beta. No resets and permanent cash transactions. Smells live to me. May smell dead in the near future though.

If you look closely there are plenty of bugs and problems that need solving before it can be called a release. Also there is currently only one game mode, the matchmaking hasn't been sorted and the wider meta-game has yet to be implemented.

Somewhere on the 'net is a post explaining what features they want to be implemented before it moves out of beta and we are currently a long way from it.

[skamage]

Heeden, on 11 December 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

If you look closely there are plenty of bugs and problems that need solving before it can be called a release. Also there is currently only one game mode, the matchmaking hasn't been sorted and the wider meta-game has yet to be implemented.

Somewhere on the 'net is a post explaining what features they want to be implemented before it moves out of beta and we are currently a long way from it.

So pretty much just ignore the point and label it what you want. I win!

[Lin Shai]

skamage, on 11 December 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

So pretty much just ignore the point and label it what you want. I win!

They have a live game, of alpha stage features and quality, and are calling it "open beta".

That should pretty much sum things up.

[Sulf]

OriginalTibs, on 11 December 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

So the devs opened the doors and let folks in. It isn't time to open yet and there's only fresh coffee, but they say they will accept your money if you get it yourself.

So suddenly half the people start griping loudly there isn't any fresh pie, and get rude when the proprietor just looks at them sadly.

I feel like Gabriel in 'Constantine': You should better appreciate your host.

At $120 a cup with a fly floating in it? Yeah sure.

[Odins Fist]

Ghoststeel, on 11 December 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

"Do People Not Know This Is Beta?"

.
Yes, but many see it as a "CURE ALL" excuse for certain things...
.
You see after you start accepting "REAL" money for good and services, "even in "CLOSED BETA", some get the impression that a product has been brought to market..
.
Then in an "OPEN BETA" where anyone can download said product, and then "BUY" with real money, goods and services, some people get the impression that "BETA" is not the correct term anymore.
.
What Company that you know off sells an "ACTUAL" product "BEFORE" it is out of testing..??
I can't remember the last time I bought a "CAR" or anything else that was supposed to be in "BETA" testing stage.
.
Do you see the issue here..?? You should...

Edited by Odins Fist, 11 December 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I used to use the "It's Beta" defense a lot more, but as time passes, I am getting tired with the lack of progression as well.

I'm not someone who feels the money was a waste (I got a lot of play time out of this title), so I don't feel robbed or wanting to demand my money back.

Simple fact is, I am just plain disappointed in how slow the game has been going. I was hoping the community warfare would be up by now. At the very least, I was hoping the core game would be relatively bug free and content would be streaming by now (new maps and mechs at a much faster rate).

Maybe it is a bit naive of me (I know there is a LOT to do to program a game of this magnitude), but I have been playing since summer and it at least feels like I have seen very little change to the game.

I'm not upset, I am not raving, I am not claiming I am going to abandon the game forever, I am just....bored.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 11 December 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[DevilJade]

soarra, on 11 December 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

it doesnt matter until it comes out , its not like you can practice it or anything.
Im sure there will be a video or a write up by pgi as it gets near or day of release.

A little transparency goes a long way, though. The way I see it, this is a pretty big deal since up until now there has only been 1 game mode. This new mode should be something they "showcase" to an extent. Having ZERO details up until it's released IS a little strange.

[Elandyll]

Granted, a small vocal minority complains a tad too much and at times for silly reasons, but sometimes the reactions of the PGI apologists make me think of the "Battered Spouse Syndrome":

- PGI knows better than we do, they work for the good of our game (God syndrome)
- PGI will make things better, they will change the game for the better, in spite of past offenses. We have to be patient (irrational hopes of change)
- If something's wrong with the game, it's probably our fault (the complainers). We don't understand & we complain too much (self blame)
- In spite of the evidence of problems, everything is awesome, and I tell everyone I'm enjoying everything all the time. Saying it will make it true (denial of problem).
- Change will come, but we have to be happy with what we have. It could be so much worse (complacency).
- Hey, we have something at least, we used to have nothing (denial of options).

Obviously it is nothing like the real thing, it just makes me think of it

"It's Beta!" sounds like the summary of all that to me, tbh.

For me, with no more wipes & Premium ticker started = as close to retail as we will ever be. The sale of seasonal fluff items on top of the rest only adds to the conclusion frankly.

[Purlana]

Brickyard, on 11 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

At $120 a cup with a fly floating in it? Yeah sure.

But it's just Beta!

You should drink the coffee with the fly still in it, and you better well damn like it. Don't like it? Well you can get out of my store!

Edited by Purlana, 11 December 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[borisof007]

i'd like to state for the record that while I defend this game's beta status, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm all sunshine and rainbows about the current state.

Community Warfare is what this game needs to give it purpose, as currently I feel like I'm just grinding c-bills for no real reason other than to just have a large amount of money. Additionally, I feel like Mech Bays should be purchasable with c-bills in addition to mech credits. Having to pay real money to buy more mechs is a bit lame.

The core design mechanics are fun and great, but getting CW designed and implemented should have been put ahead of additional mechs. This is my opinion, others are welcome to disagree.

[PANZERBUNNY]

The excuse is wearing thin, because it's one of those games that will always be in Beta.

Bad practices and implementation has no excuse though Beta or live.