416 replies to this topic

[SteelPaladin]

Particle Man, on 12 December 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Its their game that they are making and they get to say when it's beta or not. not you.

you arent an actor and being famous doesnt happen because you say so.

lrn2 analogy if you dont want to look stupider and more like a spoiled little brat.

its beta because they say so and they are building it.

Actually, defining words is generally a social consensus process rather than something done by unilateral fiat, and altering reality purely by saying it is so is generally reserved to deities.

Neither is the purview of small development houses.

[Lin Shai]

Particle Man, on 12 December 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Its their game that they are making and they get to say when it's beta or not. not you.

you arent an actor and being famous doesnt happen because you say so.

See: Contradiction.

[Joseph Mallan]

must not be on during 5-11PM (-5 international time).

[Lonestar1771]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

must not be on during 5-11PM (-5 international time).

Yeah I actually played last night too lol.

[Enigmos]

Lin Shai, on 12 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

See: Contradiction.

Well is it though? Really? One is an ownership thing and the other is a lying thing. Hard for an apple to be contradictory to a flamingo. Even if it wear's sunglasses.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 12 December 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[soarra]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

must not be on during 5-11PM (-5 international time).

thats the time in on almost every day

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lin Shai, on 12 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

See: Contradiction.

Contradiction: being in a open beta and being denied actual double heat sinks "because we say so" rather than letting us test them

[SteelPaladin]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 December 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Contradiction: being in a open beta and being denied actual double heat sinks "because we say so" rather than letting us test them

To be fair, that's not accurate.

Deciding to not have X in a product because "we don't want X in the product" is a perfectly valid design decision. Whether it's the CORRECT decision is an entire other discussion; it is still a valid decision. Once that high-level decision has been made, testing X is pointless, because the results of the test are irrelevant. The decision isn't being made based on that, and it certainly doesn't need to be "ratified" by the testers. If they have decided that X will not happen, putting it out for the testers is a waste of time.

This isn't a democracy. It is a dictatorship. Businesses may choose (choose being the operative word) to listen to their consumers because it is generally in their best interests to do so, but it is by no means a "right" to have us sign off on their design choices. The only "vote" we have that carries any weight beyond the weight the company deigns to give it is the one w/our wallets.

Edited by SteelPaladin, 12 December 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[Viper69]

Bguk, on 11 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Here comes the "It's Beta!!", "It's not Beta if they're taking money!!" arguments.

I agree that when a game says Beta, closed or open, that the game is subject to change and things need fixing.

Nevermind I am beating this dead horse. Call it whatever you want, but if you think things wont change when the game has officially released, everyone is mistaken. My point is the game should have never left Open Beta in this state, let alone the state it was in.

Edited by Viper69, 12 December 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[soarra]

Viper69, on 12 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Nevermind I am beating this dead horse. Call it whatever you want, but if you think things wont change when they game has officially released, everyone is mistaken. My point is the game should have never left Open Beta.

I think it shoudl have stayed CB also, but the problem is most people who get into CB think its just there for them to play and not actually test and put bug reports in.
Lots of people log in every patch to see whats new and log out again for the next one.
So going OB brought a lot of new blood into the test.
Im sure we all saw the forum posts about KDR during CB,come on its beta and going to be reset so who cares. But those players were not really helping find bugs or test things anyway.
I remember Beta testing games alpha/cb where you had to put full reports in weekly about bugs showing time, how it occurred and you could cause the bug to happen everytime.

[PANZERBUNNY]

soarra, on 12 December 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I think it shoudl have stayed CB also, but the problem is most people who get into CB think its just there for them to play and not actually test and put bug reports in.
Lots of people log in every patch to see whats new and log out again for the next one.
So going OB brought a lot of new blood into the test.
Im sure we all saw the forum posts about KDR during CB,come on its beta and going to be reset so who cares. But those players were not really helping find bugs or test things anyway.
I remember Beta testing games alpha/cb where you had to put full reports in weekly about bugs showing time, how it occurred and you could cause the bug to happen everytime.

You need to understand that they didn't supply the means to reliably test their game and did exactly what you are saying would be "bad". ie. A game just for CB people to play. That's what the supplied us with, so you can't blame people for thinking that.

We couldn't even populate our own drops, drop and test possible bugs out.

It's been quite the lame duck Beta Test from the start.

[soarra]

PANZERBUNNY, on 12 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

You need to understand that they didn't supply the means to reliably test their game and did exactly what you are saying would be "bad". ie. A game just for CB people to play. That's what the supplied us with, so you can't blame people for thinking that.

They supplied a game, after that its our responsibility to give them constructive feedback..Thats how beta works in all games.
what i was saying is people dont test things they just play. Beta is about trying to break things, looking for things that are really unbalanced etc. and reporting your findings. They didnt fail in CB the testers in general failed.

[SpookShow]

I am not going to get into the debate if this is beta or not because even though they are charging money this game is still being developed and there is not a thing you or I can do except sit back and enjoy the ride. With that said from what I have seen the game has great promise and the extremely dedicated/talented staff at PGI will eventually be able to pull this off. (except maybe the netcode guy. He needs to be flogged a lot)

THey really need to put a donate money clickie on the forum because I wouldnt mind giving them 10-20 bucks a week if it would help out. I know everyone tells me to just buy MC but the issue with that is the people that do the credit card transactions for PGI are borderline tards and I am sure they take a nice cut of the profit.

[PANZERBUNNY]

soarra, on 12 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

They supplied a game, after that its our responsibility to give them constructive feedback..Thats how beta works in all games.
what i was saying is people dont test things they just play. Beta is about trying to break things, looking for things that are really unbalanced etc. and reporting your findings. They didnt fail in CB the testers in general failed.

ya, and people who are trying to test have to deal with other players ***** at them for throwing matches etc etc.

They didn't supply the means for testers to drop in small groups on their own so they could reliably test and replicate bugs they have discovered in "safety".

Stop making excuses for them.

[Viper69]

SpookShow, on 12 December 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

THey really need to put a donate money clickie on the forum because I wouldnt mind giving them 10-20 bucks a week if it would help out. I know everyone tells me to just buy MC but the issue with that is the people that do the credit card transactions for PGI are borderline tards and I am sure they take a nice cut of the profit.

Would be nice to have a gift feature for folks like you, when they get their credit card system working. Rise of flight has a system where you can gift planes to other members. The Rise of Flight community is one of the most fantastic group of generous people I have met, and the gift feature works really well for them.

[soarra]

PANZERBUNNY, on 12 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

ya, and people who are trying to test have to deal with other players ***** at them for throwing matches etc etc.

They didn't supply the means for testers to drop in small groups on their own so they could reliably test and replicate bugs they have discovered in "safety".

Stop making excuses for them.

well the players throwing matches etc, should have been part of your post. Thats something that needs to be reported and pgi needs to know about so they can correct it. Part of beta testing

[Viper69]

PANZERBUNNY, on 12 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

ya, and people who are trying to test have to deal with other players ***** at them for throwing matches etc etc.

They didn't supply the means for testers to drop in small groups on their own so they could reliably test and replicate bugs they have discovered in "safety".

Stop making excuses for them.

Agree, its impossible to replicate bugs in a controlled manner when you dont have any control over the situation. Ideally we should have had custom drops on a map we selected to test terrain hangups or clipping. Its sad but we have what we have now and cant cry over what might have been. Its frustrating though that they had all of us as resources but didnt implement them.

[BLUPRNT]

"I" never once expected this game not to have problems because "I" did some research (mostly here) before "I" chose to give them money before "I" could even run this game on "MY" system. "I" chose to upgrade a bit so that "I" can run this game a bit better after "I" chose to download it BETA or NOT!

"I" still have faith in the Dev team. "I" often wonder if they even enjoy working on this project anymore after all the complaints they get.

Ever wanted to give up trying cause no matter how hard tried you could never do it well enough for them. Family,freinds, work, etc. Feeling kinda sucks doesn't it.

[soarra]

BLUPRNT, on 12 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

"I" never once expected this game not to have problems because "I" did some research (mostly here) before "I" chose to give them money before "I" could even run this game on "MY" system. "I" chose to upgrade a bit so that "I" can run this game a bit better after "I" chose to download it BETA or NOT!

"I" still have faith in the Dev team. "I" often wonder if they even enjoy working on this project anymore after all the complaints they get.

Ever wanted to give up trying cause no matter how hard tried you could never do it well enough for them. Family,freinds, work, etc. Feeling kinda sucks doesn't it.

well said sir.

[PANZERBUNNY]

soarra, on 12 December 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

well the players throwing matches etc, should have been part of your post. Thats something that needs to be reported and pgi needs to know about so they can correct it. Part of beta testing

Ya, well it's Beta. Apparently nothing matters in Beta because it's Beta, so nothing should be reportable. Devs aren't accountable to anything they do, so why should players?