17 replies to this topic

[Cavalcade]

I'm not in the group that thinks that.

I'm responsible enough to make all kinds of life affecting decisions day after day. I DON'T appreciate losing control and awareness of my repair costs for the sake of cajoling a groups of damned fools who can't seem to remember to repair their mech's prior to drops. Seriously guys? This is the solution decided upon?

Yes, it sucks when a pug forgets to repair his/her mech and the entire group suffers as a result. But that's only because you're allowing them to drop in the first place! Hell, we've got so many disconnects in drops these days what would it matter if you just kill their drop if they're not 100%?

It would appear more prudent for the developers to augment the launch / drop process, such that it checks repair % of dropping mech's, if he's not 100% repaired, then negate the drop for that individual under 100%.

DO THIS rather than make us all suffer for sake of supporting the stupidously forgetful ones.

[Dirus Nigh]

OK here is your clue.

Repair and rearm where not taken out of the game because people forgot. People were exploiting the 75% free repair and rearm to farm. Also AFK farming was a big problem so the devs made game performance the determination on how much you earned. Rather than a flat reward win or lose, 100/75k respectively.

[SIN Deacon]

Dirus Nigh, on 20 December 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

OK here is your clue.

Repair and rearm where not taken out of the game because people forgot. People were exploiting the 75% free repair and rearm to farm. Also AFK farming was a big problem so the devs made game performance the determination on how much you earned. Rather than a flat reward win or lose, 100/75k respectively.

So your clue is to remove the mechanic that is being abused rather then to correct what is being abused? That sounds a lot like the whole gun control problem down in the states. Because people choose to use weapons differently from others we should prevent even the law abiding citizens from owning them.

The solution is to not get rid of the problem. They wasted all that time balancing the economy, and they just completely gutted it in favor of those that are bad at this game. This is a quote pulled directly from the patch notes...

"Heads up we’ve changed up the way you earn C-bills. First we have taken Repair and Rearm out of the equation. We did this to eliminate people dropping with BattleMechs that are not 100 % health, potentially harming their team."

If you have a more detailed explanation or know where to find it, then what you said might have meaning. If you can't, then what the OP said should give you a clue.

Edited by SIN Deacon, 20 December 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

I did not remove RnR the devs did. That was their solution to the problem for now.

Whether I agree with the decision does not matter. I just reported the why. Which was what the OP's rant was about.

I honesly like the dynamic of having to repair and rearm my mechs. I thought the rearm costs where way to high. Hopefully the devs will bring it back in time for the implementation of community warfare.

[Snib]

Cavalcade, on 20 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

I DON'T appreciate losing control

vs

Cavalcade, on 20 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Yes, it sucks when a pug forgets to repair his/her mech and the entire group suffers as a result. But that's only because you're allowing them to drop in the first place! Hell, we've got so many disconnects in drops these days what would it matter if you just kill their drop if they're not 100%?

You make as much sense as ... wait, you make no sense at all, you're just complaining for the heck of it.

[Scarlett Avignon]

I do agree that it was kind of silly to remove RnR. I do completely agree with the changes to match payouts, though. The simple answer to RnR abuse is to make it mandatory to repair a mech to full before launching it into a match. I know that, in theory, you are doing the same thing, but it does take some of the flavor away from the game. Right now, people go balls-out in combat, because there aren't really any consequences. Before, people were very careful with expensive builds and tried to avoid taking too much damage. I don't like the new wave of suicide players.

[Aegic]

I think you guys are trying to make something a big deal that is not a big deal.

Most people that I play with myself included just had auto repair/rearm on. We never paid attention to what repairs cost as long as our gross income was increasing.

This takes away a layer of gameplay that was not integral in any way, was not affecting the game other than to exploit it, and really adds no fun.

Seriously, its not a big deal. We lost nothing.

[Tzukasa]

It is a big deal actually as people are now bringing Absurd ammounts of missiles and balistics using them w/o any thought or care. Last night I kid you not I watched a guy bring 2900 LRM's and he wasn't even caring about weither there was a hill in the way, weither he had a good shot, or even if he had a freekin lockon. He was just firing over and over and over again. It was ABSURD. And guess what he stomped everyone. He had 1200+ dmg / 5 kills / and 1400+ xp.... This isn't the only person I've seen use this strat now either due to there being NO downside to doing it... The R&R removal has dumbed the game down in ways that make me shudder and honestly make me lose hope that this game will head in the right direction.

[Mims]

If they didn't remove R&R nobody would run stalkers, except for maybe a ppc boat, but it would be a nerfed ppc boat with horrible torso twist. but we already have a ppc boat, the awesome. I also think they just removed it temporarily so they can rebalance it. but i know if they hadnt removed it i would not have bought a stalker. Put all the lrm launchers you want on somthing, it doesnt mean a damn thing if you dont have endurance. and being limited to 3 tons or lrm ammo before to make a decent profit was horrible. and eventualy the R&R had itself dumbed everything down to lasers. We should be able to use a playstyle we like, and still make some profit. Economy will be back, but hopefully at slightly reduced re-arm cost. instead of 3 tons of lrms, it should be 5 or 6 tons and still make profit. I will acknowlage that 7 or more tons of lrms is overpowered. but the limitations we had before were ridiculous.

And 2900 missles is more than 16 tons. People talk about how they want risk vs reward back... 16 tons... that means no lasers. the risk for him would be a light getting too close. That is definitely a downside. whats more is not a single person on your team HAS to expose themselves. it is possible for a missle boat to get almost zero damage the whole game, if your team is smart enough not to let them.

Edited by Mims, 20 December 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[AC]

I think R&R should be back in. Regular SRM missiles and LRM's were a bit overpriced, but reload costs should be in game. Repair costs should be as well. Fixing your XL engine should be more expensive than fixing your standard engine. Fixing a blown up ECM should be more expensive than not equiping one.

Repair costs were a balancing factor and that is gone now.

[Corvus Antaka]

I miss the R&R as well, though currently vs the bad R&R before I don't XL engines have enough weaknesses in combat that their repair bill was insane. Repair bills just need normalizing, and the game should simply not let you drop at all if your mech health is under 80%.

If ammo refills weren't free at all, but costs where much more reasonable, then that would be great too.

For right now I do prefer the new system, however the income rate is very very low compared to before & due to R&R affects if you ran a laserboat vs an artemis LRM boat.

We need R&R back for immersion primarily, but when it is done right.

[Sir Aaron]

I dont miss the R&R because when ever i had a Mech, all the money i earned went into the repair bills .. and no i wasn't always dieing, but as close brawler i had always armor damage. So for me its a blessing that i am finally able to make progress instead of spending all my money on just keeping the Mech running.

Edited by Sir Aaron, 20 December 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[AC]

Sir Aaron, on 20 December 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

I dont miss the R&R because when ever i had a Mech all the money i earned went into the repair bills .. and no i wasn't always dieing but as close brawler i had always armor damage so for me its a blessing that i am finally able to make progress instead of spending all my money on just keeping the Mech running.

That was part of making a smart built. I had my fancy mechs with the double heat sinks, XL engines, and artimus missile systems, but they were money sinks. To earn cash I had my simple mechs like a straight up Hunchie with an AC20 and standard engine and heat sinks. Cheap to repair.

This is why I want R&R back. It took a dynamic out of the game. It took any reason to drive standard tech out of the game. Your fancy pimped out, tech maxed, mech SHOULD be a money sink. This helps drive diversity into the game as well.

[Koniving]

Tzukasa, on 20 December 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

It is a big deal actually as people are now bringing Absurd ammounts of missiles and balistics using them w/o any thought or care. Last night I kid you not I watched a guy bring 2900 LRM's and he wasn't even caring about weither there was a hill in the way, weither he had a good shot, or even if he had a freekin lockon. He was just firing over and over and over again. It was ABSURD. And guess what he stomped everyone. He had 1200+ dmg / 5 kills / and 1400+ xp.... This isn't the only person I've seen use this strat now either due to there being NO downside to doing it... The R&R removal has dumbed the game down in ways that make me shudder and honestly make me lose hope that this game will head in the right direction.

It's made the weapons viable again. The solution? Bring more ECM. Honestly I don't use LRMs with my stalker. Gimme four large lasers, or two large pulse and two streaks, and I ruin just about anyone's day. Best part about it is my repair and rearm cost would be chump change. Standard engine, no upgrades aside from double heat sinks. Easy money.

[Woska]

Actually, I like the repair and rearm being removed at this point. In fact I think it better reflects what should be happening. We are each supposed to represent a Mechwarrior fighting for his house, or his merc' unit. Either way, you've got funding and support of a larger organization behind you to pay for your mech repairs. So those don't come out of your pocket. Instead the money you do get is a direct bonus for your contributions in that battle.

Removing repair and rearm means you can use those weapons that you prefer instead of saying "Hmm, I'd like to use that Gauss rifle and Artemis LRMs, but the ammo and repairs are too expensive. So I'll stick with AC2 and lasers instead."

We were already getting a huge chunk of our repair and rearm paid for according to the devs, so it's obviously something that needs a lot of work to implement properly. For now, I'm quite content as is.

[TB Freelancer]

SIN Deacon, on 20 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

"Heads up we’ve changed up the way you earn C-bills. First we have taken Repair and Rearm out of the equation. We did this to eliminate people dropping with BattleMechs that are not 100 % health, potentially harming their team."

Uh...HELLO?

How many morons here would outright tell people not to re-arm or repair to make the good tech affordable without premium or founder/hero bonuses? Just the simple fact that welfare ammo/armor had to be included was iron clad proof the old economy was broken.


It was broken. So they fixed it.

[MustrumRidcully]

AC, on 20 December 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

That was part of making a smart built. I had my fancy mechs with the double heat sinks, XL engines, and artimus missile systems, but they were money sinks. To earn cash I had my simple mechs like a straight up Hunchie with an AC20 and standard engine and heat sinks. Cheap to repair.

This is why I want R&R back. It took a dynamic out of the game. It took any reason to drive standard tech out of the game. Your fancy pimped out, tech maxed, mech SHOULD be a money sink. This helps drive diversity into the game as well.

You know what was a money sink for my mech?

Armor.

That was consistently the highest price repaired. Internal damage, items, ammo? They all could be often ignored. But ammo was always sticking out as something I had to repair and something that was costly. And I am speaking of standard armour. Not Ferro Fibrous.

You were punished for getting in a fight. THat'S what R&R did. And let me tell you - If I was a mercenary with a mech, I would expect my financial compensation to cover all my repair fees, and give me a nice bonus. If they want an Atlas and want me to fight to the end, they should be pay me for it.

Plenty of people thought - well, with those repair cost and with that payout, maybe I don't need to actually fight to the end? Things go awry? Let'S power down, let's stop fighting. SOme went even futher, and deliberately went AFK and did only whatever little was necessary to count for the end result rewards.

These exploits can only be avoided by changing the system fundamentally. It cannot be that early retreats or AFK farming are the best way to earn money. The C-Bills are just the means to an end, and the end was fighting with big stompy robots. If the process of getting C-Bills stands in the way of big stompy robot fights, then there is something wrong. And it doesn't matter if it's "realistic" or not - it's not fun. We're not playing a mercenary simulator so that when we grow up and take over the mercenary company of our father, we know how to manage our finances - we're here to play a game.

[Slanski]

I completely agree, MustrumRidcully. The overhauled system rewards contribution in the synthetic battle setting we run currently.

I would very much like harsher logistics with supply lines from controlled worlds and transport costs of drop ship cargo, field repair costs, etc once community warfare and a galaxy of strife hit. Make it harsh and Mad Max like for all the die hards who want to claim solar systems and worlds in the periphery. Representation on the map, influence and recognition will be our rewards, CBills the means to achieve them.

Now we just have CBills and Mech choices as reward. For this game mode the overhauled system works much better.